Kingdom Ready

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18 Responses to “Evangelicals Persecuted?”

1. on 17 May 2008 at 1:12 am1 Wolfgang

   Hi Kyle,

   I went and had a brief look at the article you mentioned above … well, seemed rather confusing and just about not worth the while reading to me … Perhaps this is due to the fact that I apparently do not understand what an “evangelical” is? perhaps it is due to the fact that I am not an American?

   Cheers,
   Wolfgang

2. on 17 May 2008 at 8:21 am2 Karen

   A common trope in current American evangelical thinking (and it’s been this way for at least the past 10 years) is that all those secular liberal elitist evolutionists are taking over our schools, our society,and our way of life, and pretty soon we’re all going to be rounded up and our Bible will be burned (I exaggerate, but only a bit).

   This attitude has apparently now filtered down to encompass even other expressions of Christian worship. All this sort of thinking makes me roll my eyes. I’d like to send people who speak that way to China or many other countries where Christians are *truly* persecuted….

3. on 17 May 2008 at 3:55 pm3 Sean

   I am not an evangelical

4. on 20 May 2008 at 1:40 pm4 Mark

   I have been hearing (and reading) the phrase “emerging church” (and also “emergent church”), which this article mentions. Can someone define this for me?

   Also, it seems as if the term “evangelical” is used to refer to more conservative Christian theology, as opposed to so-called “liberal” theology. Is this a correct understanding? If so, I wonder why they don’t just say “conservative.”

   Anyway, as far as I can tell, we aren’t considered evangelical because we don’t believe in the trinity or going to heaven at death. It’s a shame we get lumped together with extremely liberal theologians who don’t even believe in the authority of the
   bible.

5. on 20 May 2008 at 6:51 pm5 JohnO

   I’m sure they’d yell at me for this, but as far as I understand, the definitions are simply:

   Emergent – the culture and meaning of church needs to change, tradition is useless. Truth, in addition to being objective is also incredibly subjective (some truths we think are objective are only subjective). Some feel free to leave conservative doctrines.

   Evangelical – conservative protestantism (that is generally not baptist nor reformed). Generally middle-class, white, suburban, political. The mega-churches are for the most part evangelical.

6. on 20 May 2008 at 9:45 pm6 Mark

   So there is a major movement that says that the traditional churches need to be revamped. This is a good thing, as long as they don’t go too far toward the liberal extreme.

   I seem to remember someone somewhere saying that there was a distinction between the “emergent” church and the “emerging” church. Do you know anything about that?

7. on 21 May 2008 at 5:35 am7 Fortigurn

   These motivational posters for the emerging church may give you a good idea of what it’s about.

   http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/posters.htm

8. on 21 May 2008 at 9:05 am8 JohnO

   Mark… http://emergentvillage.com/about/ might help as well as the FAQ

9. on 21 May 2008 at 11:33 am9 Ron S.

   Hmmm… I reviewed some of the stuff there on “emergentvillage.com” (specifically the page of “values & practices” – http://emergentvillage.com/about-information/values-and-practices). And I have to ask is it just me, or does that all sound overly verbose to the point that it appears to say a lot yet really says not much at all?

   With that I would be critical of it heading towards (as Mark says above) “the liberal extreme”. In fact it kind of reminds me of new-age Christianity (if there ever could really be such a thing), or many of those calling themselves Christian within the UUA (Unitarian Universalist Association).

10. on 21 May 2008 at 1:09 pm10 Sean

    Evangelicalism is a theological perspective, most closely associated with Protestant Christianity, which identifies with the gospel. Although evangelicalism has been defined in a number of ways,[1] most adherents consider belief in the need for personal conversion (or being “born again”), some expression of the gospel through evangelism, a high regard for Biblical authority, and an emphasis on the death and resurrection of Jesus to be key characteristics.[2] (from wikipedia)

    The emerging church (also known as the emerging church or the emergent church movement) is a Christian movement of the late 20th and early 21st century whose participants seek to engage postmodern people, especially the unchurched and post-churched. Dr. R. Todd Mangum, Associate Professor of Theology and Dean of Faculty at Biblical Seminary, describes it this way:

    “Emergent” is a loosely knit group of people in conversation about and trying experiments in forwarding the ministry of Jesus in new and different ways, as the people of God in a post-Christian context. From there, wide diversity abounds. “Emergents” seem to share one common trait: disillusionment with the organized, institutional church as it has existed through the 20th century (whether fundamentalist, liberal, megachurch, or tall-steeple liturgical). Its strengths: creative, energetic, youthful, authentic, highly relational. Its weaknesses: somewhat cynical, disorganized, sometimes reckless (even in the theological ideas willing to be entertained), immature[1] (also from wikipedia)

    Essentially evangelicals are the “born again” Christians and emergent is the label for the movement of those who are dissatisfied with both evangelical and mainline churchianity.

11. on 21 May 2008 at 11:52 pm11 Dustin

    Why not call ourselves doulos Christou par ecellance?

12. on 22 May 2008 at 1:18 pm12 Sean

    did you just mix transliterated Greek with French? That should definitely be illegal or something 🙂

    I think we are restorationists.

    Restorationism, sometimes called Christian primitivism, frequently describes religious movements that believe pristine, or original Christianity is restored in themselves to an important degree. These diverse groups teach that a restoration of Christianity has become necessary because Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant Christians introduced grave defects into Christian faith and practice, or have lost a vital element of genuine Christianity. (see Great Apostasy).

    As a descriptive label, restorationism often applies particularly to the Restoration Movement, and numerous other unaffiliated movements that originated in the eastern United States and Canada and grew rapidly in the early and mid 19th century in the wake of the Second Great Awakening. Restoration is also a label self-applied by the Latter Day Saint movement, often called Mormonism, referring to a period which began with Joseph Smith and the publication of the Book of Mormon.

    More recent groups also apply the label “restorationist” to themselves, describing their goal to re-establish Christianity in its original form, such as some anti-denominational “Restorationists” which arose in the 1970s in the United Kingdom[1][2] and elsewhere. In comparable terms, earlier primitivist movements including the Paulicians, Hussites, Anabaptists, radical Baptists, and the Quakers have been described as examples of restorationism. [wiki again]

13. on 23 May 2008 at 1:51 pm13 Mark

    Is that what he was doing? I thought he was speaking in tongues! 😉

14. on 23 May 2008 at 8:06 pm14 Dustin

    Never!!! 🙂

15. on 28 May 2008 at 2:31 pm15 Kyle

    I think, in some cases, we need to be careful in our critique of what is called the emerging church. We also need to be careful not to fully except something either. It’s easy to look at something that is new and point out all of it’s flaws, but on the other hand it’s easy to look at everything and point out it’s flaws.
    Of course a set of christians are going to arise to deal with a postmodern generation, that is simply to be expected, only time will tell if it was a wise choice or not. Just as certain strains of Christianity rose out of the enlightenment period (the Abrahamic Faith for instance).
    Is it possible to be an emerging restorationist?

16. on 28 May 2008 at 9:24 pm16 Sean

    Indeed, although I have not read any of the books coming out of the emerging movement, Victor has and he tells me they are very refreshing and thought provoking. I also hear that many emergent thinkers have reconsidered the question of eternal torment and found the dogma to be unbiblical. Whatever else may be said about them, they sure are open to discussion which is a very important virtue that I appreciate.

17. on 29 May 2008 at 7:53 am17 Victor

    I think the appeal of the emergent movement is more than just their theology for people – it is the rebellious element that is in there – the pastors wear black t-shirts and jeans to preach with dark rimmed glasses and use cool pop-culture references in their writings and sermons…its cool…it really is. From time to time, I’ll go to a worship service on Sunday Evenings at a nearby church which has an emergent bent…Its the “coolest” church I’ve ever gone to…but much of their thinking is not Biblical. So one has to discern what it is that is appealing to you when it comes to that group. Truth must be the foundation. With that being said, I have enjoyed the books I have read and sermons I have heard – they are a section of the church that is finding the Kingdom-themed message of Jesus (although it varies what exactly they do with that), are seeing the absurdity of violence and war under a Christian-guise, and are into taking care of people, really loving them and helping them grow…I like that.

    As you all have spoken a bit here in this thread, the name “Christian” sadly carries with it many things which Jesus and his original followers didn’t. I like the restorationist idea…I have also heard the term “Messianic Christian” which is interesting (though it is redundant), but for some carries and idea of law-keeping perhaps…In the meantime, hopefully we will be known as Christ’s followers by our love for each other and the Kingdom-driven lifestyles we live.

18. on 29 May 2008 at 7:20 pm18 Fortigurn

    Victor, good points.

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