Once Saved Always Saved?
December 18th, 2008 by Sean
I’m working on a strategy to talk to people about the subject of salvation. However, I can’t really remember too many of the verses or arguments used by people who believe in once-saved-always-saved (OSAS). Could you help me out by posting a verse along with some comments indicating how this verse would be interpreted in that system?
I think the conclusion for OSAS is reached by evangelical Christians based on their understanding of anthropology and regeneration. What I mean by anthropology is that most Christians believe humans are composed of two separable parts: a perishable body and an imperishable soul. The soul is created by God at conception and is immaterial. Even so, ever since the Fall the soul is innately depraved and destined for destruction. Thus, when someone believes the gospel, his or her soul is divinely regenerated. I think of it this way: prior to conversion the soul is heavier than air and thus when it detaches from the body it sinks (into hell). At conversion the soul is made to be lighter than air so at death it rises up towards heaven. Thus, once God does his miraculous regenerative work on a human soul it cannot be undone. Now, obviously I don’t believe any of this, but I’m just trying to understand how people come to the OSAS position in mainstream Christianity.
I think there might be (at least) two distinct varieties. The variety we are more familiar with, and the Southern Baptist/Calvinistic variety. But, I’m unsure.
Another version besides the divinely regenerated soul idea, is that man was meant to be three parts: spirit, soul and body. The spirit is supposedly the part that gave man connection with God, based on the statement that God created man in His image (Gen. 1:26-27). Man lost that spirit when he sinned, and was only able to get it back after Pentecost.
According to this belief, when a person is born again he becomes three parts instead of only two, which idea is based on I Thess. 5:23, “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
This holy spirit or “new birth seed” is called incorruptible based on I Peter 1:23, “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.” It is said, by those who adhere to this belief, that once God’s seed is in you, you can’t lose it because it’s incorruptible. Just like you can’t ever lose the seed of your earthly father regardless of your fellowship with him, so God’s seed is permanently in you after the new birth.
When you die, it goes back to God, later to be reunited with a resurrected body and soul. But the “real you” is your holy spirit which you receive at the time of the new birth. (This erroneous idea is also the basis for much misunderstanding about the holy spirit and its working.)
This idea, combined with all the verses that speak of being saved by grace and not by works, leads to the conclusion that regardless of your works, you are permanently saved once you confess Jesus as Lord.
This is how I learned it in The Way, and what I believed for many years. I have also heard variations on the theme from other Christians, particularly radio preachers. I hope this helps you to understand where they are coming from.
Sean,
If you’re looking for scriptural sources from pro-”osas” believers, go over to truthortradtion.com. They’re former ex-Way folks as well, but they still believe and promote OSAS theology.
They’ve got a whole slew of articles and videos on it at:
http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&new_topic=90
That should get you started.
Also for a good list of NT verses showing salvation truly is “conditional”, check out Bruce Barham’s little slide show/PPT against OSAS on his site TorahofMessiah.com. Here’s the link it it:
http://www.torahofmessiah.com/osasslides.html
Hope that helps.
Ron S.
I’m familiar with what you articulated MarkC, I guess what I’m looking for more than anything are the proof-texts that OSAS people use.
In my experience, the top proof text has been I Peter 1:23. They always seem to come back to “incorruptible seed.”
Right, but 1 Pet 1.23 is a distinctive to people who were in TWI. No one else would think to use that verse in that way. What are the other verses used to argue the point from an evangelical perspective?
The one I have heard most often is Romans 8:1 (There is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus). I’m not sure why they think it implies permanence.
Another one (I can’t remember the verse) is when they say if you fell away and came back to Christ it would be like crucifying Him all over again unless you were saved the whole time.
I think where they go wrong is when the Bible mentions salvation being a sure thing. Paul is always confident that he will be in the Kingdom. They assume it is not conditional upon remaining “in Christ”. Also, similar to this, is when the Bible talks about things that will happen as though they already happened. If someone doesn’t understand Jewish thought they will develop some crazy ideas based on how their previous philosophy fits into something new and unfamiliar that they are trying to make sense of.
I have heard people talk about Romans 10:9 as a verse indicating OSAS:
Romans 10:9 – that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
They will put the emphasis on “you will be (past tense) saved.” So once you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe God raised him from the dead, that saves you.
I’ll think of more…
Perhaps this one is one of their sluggers?
Yet, even if nothing separates us from God’s love does that mean that we will remain saved even if we choose to turn away? Will God force us, violating our free will, to remain saved if by our actions we turn back to the world?
John 10
22At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. 24So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
Those coming from a reformed background will use these verses. Of course with any of these there is a whole system built around them. With the predestination thing of the reformed folks that ties these verses into that. My sense here is that even though they believe that once you belong to Christ, you cannot loose that relationship, yet no one ever really knows if they are of his flock. Someone can believe for years, but if they walk away, they say they never were a believer.
Brian,
Correct, the SBC is fond of using that logic, if you ever fall away, you were never there to begin with.
This is a subject Brian and I were just discussing last weekend while at the lovely gathering at the church there in Albany. Thank you again to all the hard workers, it was quite refreshing.
The verses in I Corinthians has been referenced regarding losing rewards or inheritance but not the individual.
I Cor. 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold,
silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall
declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall
try every man’s work of what sort it is.
14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he
shall receive a reward.
15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but
he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
The idea of “but he himself shall be saved;…” The part being destroyed is our rewards from our works, not the individual.
What I think of with that is the aspect of inheritance. Yes we are joint heirs with Christ. We are children of our father Abraham and entitled to that inheritance. So, we should want that inheritance and not want to lose that. We do not want to be like Esau whom God said he hated because Esau despised his birth rite.
But, then their response is, “So, is it a work-based walk and not a faith-based walk?”
I look forward to reading more responses of this so as to be of service to help others.
Theresa
I too was taught that the passage in I Corinthians 3 was saying that. But I was since challenged to reread it and carefully consider the context.
In this chapter, Paul is talking about planting the Word and building on the foundation of the Gospel that others may have started. If a man’s work (of planting the Gospel) is destroyed, he shall suffer loss, but he himself shall be saved. It is talking about the work of building a Church body. It’s not about the works a person does in his life after he is saved, and whether or not they affect his salvation.
Yes, we should want to partake of the inheritance. And we will if we remain faithful. Nearly every time I get into this discussion somebody always responds, as you mention, with “So, is it a work-based walk and not a faith-based walk?” The question is based on the assumption that the two are mutually exclusive. But there are two sides to the “faith” coin.
Paul says we’re saved by grace through faith and not by works. Yet we are saved UNTO good works (Eph. 2:8-10). And James says that faith without works is dead (James 2:14-26). It does no good to say you believe and then not act on it, for that is not true faith. But there is a difference between doing works IN ORDER TO be saved and doing works BECAUSE you’re saved. The works are the fruit of our faith, and thus an indicator that we have the right seed. Every tree is known by its fruit (Luke 6:44).
Ultimately we are saved by faith, but not just a one-time “moment” of faith; we must CONTINUE in the faith until the end.
Eph. 2:8, 9 Jas2:14, 26 Acts 16:30, 31 are the scriptures that I usually encounter when I talk to people that believes in OSAS. ‘They say that they are saved by grace and by believing only based on the scriptures cited above’. Obviously, they believe that God will forgive their sins regardless if they sin over and over again. It does not make any sense with the rest of the Scriptures. There are a lot of other scriptures showing the opposite of what this OSAS belief system. Paul exhorted that we as Christians have to continue the race of salvation until the finish line proving our faith with Christ. That is basically telling me I am not done until I reach the finish line not just because God’s grace is infinite. God has infinite grace for those who loves him and appreciate his laws everyday not just one day.
Wally,
I pulled this off a church web site:
ETERNAL SECURITY is the confidence that once the relationship between God and an individual has been restored through Jesus Christ, that it will never again be broken. This confidence is based on the incomparable power and strength of Jesus Christ to maintain that connection and not let anything separate the believer from God’s love.
John 10:27-29; Rom. 8:28-39; 2 Tim. 1:10-12; Heb. 7:25; I Peter 1:3-5
Thanks, Brian
These are good verses that need to be reckoned with.
These verses came up in an email discussion I had a while back. The thing is, if you assume they mean you can’t lose your salvation no matter what, then you have to come up with an explanation for the verses which present a conditional situation, such as:
I Cor. 10:11-12; I Cor. 15:1-2; I Tim. 4:1-2; II Tim. 2:12-13;
Heb. 3:6-14; 6:11; II Peter 1:10
Usually when this argument comes up, each side quotes their verses, and the “once saved always saved” side has to either ignore some very plain Scriptures, or have a glaring contradiction. The verses each side uses must be taken together. Then you get the “big picture” that as long as we continue in faith and don’t turn away, we remain in right relationship with God, and all those verses Brian mentioned apply.
Indeed. I would like to put together a comprehensive article on the subject at some point in time in order to clearly show the biblical teaching of perseverance (as opposed to eternal security) but I know that any such effort would be in vain if it did not address the proof-texts from the OSAS camp.
I have a strong personal passion on this subject as the OSAS belief had a direct causal relationship to my destructive behavior in the past. It in fact prevented me from becoming a Christian (i.e. a genuine follower of Jesus) because I was convinced that I had prayed a prayer one time and thus I was saved “and all hell can’t stop me.” I caused so much pain and tragedy in the lives of many simply because I truly believed that for me all things were permissible. Of course, I don’t know what I would have done if I had a more biblical view of salvation. I may still have been wicked but at least I would not have been thinking all along that there was nothing wrong with it.
There exists a tension (I believe by Godly design) to never quite definitely answer the question of Conditional Salvation vs. OSAS. There are arguments to be made for both sides and I always find it interesting that each side looks at the same evidence and comes to different conclusions. Using the same verses they each in turn conclude different outcomes and meaning.
Trying for a definitive answer would be difficult if not nearly impossible and I believe God wants it that way. Why? I believe both systems act as guard rails for our lives, keeping us centered and moving or persevering. We are never told flat out that we can lose your salvation and we are never definitively told we are always saved – rather, we walk down the center of these two thoughts.
If we sin and fear the loss of our salvation, God pulls us back and declares that He chose us and that nothing can separate us from Him. If we sin while celebrating our salvation, God warns us we will give an account and that we might be ashamed at his coming. The tension keeps us living for him, confessing our sins, walking in love. But neither side can lay claim to a definitive doctrine.
prita,
these verses from Hebrews came to mind:
I’ve only got one problem with all of this. All of these positions fail to reckon with the culture and faith of the Israelite people who wrote the NT. I think that is how prita can write:
Because in the current context of “theological systems”, the verses are interpreted by both sides in accordance with their own system. Hence the descripancy. What *no* sides are doing is reading the verses in their historical Jewish context – then we will get a definitive answer on what Paul is saying.
In my opinion, quite a number of the verses used by either side are being done wrongly, they often have nothing to do whatsoever with this issue. A plain category mistake.
Sean,
Again these verses are used by both sides to make their point. I have seen the OSAS group interpret these to mean you can’t lose salvation and the Conditional side interpret them that you can. It’s just not clear cut.
Look at Ephesians 1:4 “According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world.” Shall I interpret that to mean there are those chosen by God for salvation and nothing can change that and that there are others who are not chosen and nothing can change that? Shall I conclude that although Christ died for all men and took the sins of the world upon himself that some people are just not chosen for eternal life?
The tension remains and if you decide to choose one doctrine or the other you will find that you will always be ignoring verses while magnifying others. So far that is what both sides have done.
The more I think about this argument, the more I realize that it is really very foolish. It minimalizes Christianity and the finished work of Christ. The OSAS lowers the bar so far as to include any one who at any time may have been baptized or confessed Jesus as Lord regardless of how they live – theirs is a minimal effort approach. The conditional salvation crowd controls people with fear and leads them to slavery – theirs is a maximum effort approach. I believe both sides miss the point – community with God. God is reconciling the world unto himself. He is in the process of restoring that close intimate relationship He and Adam once had. Sanctification is a lifelong process that happens in the midst of relationship.
You see through the Word of God warnings and encouragement, responsibilities and privileges. The church loves to take privileges and make them rights and take responsibilities and make them optional. Relationships have willing participants who are there because they want to be, not because they have to doing what they love.
prita,
I’m afraid I don’t agree with your agnostic position. You are saying that neither view is correct. This just doesn’t work logically for me.
A = once I’m saved, it is impossible to loose my salvation
~A = once I’m saved, it is possible to loose my salvation
A and ~A cannot be true at the same time. This is not tension, this is a contradiction. Though I believe that it is possible to loose my salvation, I do not have a perfectionist complex nor do I obsess on the possibility of falling away. In fact, it is the furthest thing from my mind. My life is focused on living for God and seeking first the kingdom of God and doing that in community. I know that God saved me when I repented and believed the gospel which is why, with God’s help, I live out the gospel each day until the kingdom comes.
Also, please note that Hebrews 6.4-5 describes a saved person. Then v6 says that if they fall away then they cannot be renewed to repentance. This verse is unmistakably saying that it is possible to fall away. I would be very interested in hearing you describe the OSAS interpretation of this text.
JohnO,
though the whole conversation is abstract and departs from the 1st century zeitgeist, it is nevertheless necessary to engage in.
I’m just saying that the answer lies in the first century. Once we’re detached from it, one can slip any worldview as the foundation and come out with radically different answers.
This whole discussion is less of “what does this text mean?” and way more of “what context am I reading this text?”. The context determines the answer much more than just the text. The text is merely a function, a vector, a direction, a velocity, a practical outworking of the worldview.
So when we supplant the worldview, we come out with drastically different answers. This is why the three positions exist, ‘yes’, ‘no’ (your position, and ‘it does not matter’ (prita’s).
John,
I was thinking that since your comments so often include “historical Jewish context” and “category mistake” in the future you could save time by just using the initials HJC or CM. It would save that extra typing.
Prita,
You should ask the Scripture how to interpret this. The Scripture would tell you that God chose many people, but they were later condemned by God to death. Here’s an example:
Deuteronomy 10:15 “Yet on your fathers did the LORD set His affection to love them, and He chose their descendants after them, even you above all peoples, as it is this day.
So God chose the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. After God says this, He continues:
Deuteronomy 11:16-17 “Beware that your hearts are not deceived, and that you do not turn away and serve other gods and worship them. Or the anger of the LORD will be kindled against you, and He will shut up the heavens so that there will be no rain and the ground will not yield its fruit; and you will perish quickly from the good land which the LORD is giving you.
After God chooses them, He tells them they will perish if they don’t listen to Him. Yes, He chose them, and were later executed by Him. In just one instance, 3.000 of them were executed – Exodus 32:28.
In order to be saved, being chosen by God is necessary, but not sufficient. The recipients of salvation have to choose as well:
Deuteronomy 30:15-20 ”See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity; in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the LORD your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it. “But if your heart turns away and you will not obey, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it. “I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants, by loving the LORD your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding fast to Him
The ones God chose will surely perish if they don’t “love the LORD your God, obey His voice, and hold fast to Him”. There was one more important criterion for these chose descendants to be saved, presented by God later in Deuteronomy (18:18-19), after He said He chose them:
The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brethren; to him you shall give heed to everything He says to you. And it will be that every soul that does not heed that prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people. – Acts 3:22-23
Indeed, Jesus told these people who were chose by God:
John 8:24 “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
And Paul echoes this:
Acts 13:46 Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.
Yes, these descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, chosen by God himself, will not be saved.
You also said:
Again, I think you should look for an answer in the Scripture. It says that all people are chosen for eternal life:
1 Timothy 2:3-4 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Also, Jesus said in a parable the same thing:
Luke 14:16-24 But He said to him, “A man was giving a big dinner, and he invited many; 17 and at the dinner hour he sent his slave to say to those who had been invited, ‘Come; for everything is ready now.’ 18 “But they all alike began to make excuses. The first one said to him, ‘I have bought a piece of land and I need to go out and look at it; please consider me excused.’ 19 “Another one said, ‘I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I am going to try them out; please consider me excused.’ 20 “Another one said, ‘I have married a wife, and for that reason I cannot come.’ 21 “And the slave came back and reported this to his master. Then the head of the household became angry and said to his slave, ‘Go out at once into the streets and lanes of the city and bring in here the poor and crippled and blind and lame.’ 22 “And the slave said, ‘Master, what you commanded has been done, and still there is room.’ 23 “And the master said to the slave, ‘Go out into the highways and along the hedges, and compel them to come in, so that my house may be filled. 24 ‘For I tell you, none of those men who were invited shall taste of my dinner.’”
As it can be seen, some who were chosen by God to eat at his feast did not answer the call; God says “none of those men who were invited shall taste of my dinner”. As Paul said, they judged themselves unworthy of eternal life. As a result, everybody else was invited.
So I see no tension between OSAS and conditional salvation. Jesus has always put conditions to salvation.
Brian, thanks for the suggestion! I’ll consider it. You can tell what I’m interested in and what I’ve been studying eh?
All I’m suggesting is that both sides are looking at the same evidence, same scriptures and coming to different conclusions. Now either one side is right and the other incorrect or perhaps there is some truth to both arguments but neither argument is totally correct.
I would also suggest it is beyond anyone here on earth to determine if anyone has lost their salvation or is in the process of losing there salvation. There is no measurement given where we on earth could even determine if they had. You certainly can not use physical death as any measurment of eternal salvation both for or against.
I’m not sure why this is a gnostic view but maybe someone can explain that to me.
Prita,
You can always suggest that, true, but the Scripture says different. Paul and Barnabas clearly told their unbelieving fellow Jews that they lost their salvation – that is not to say that these Jews could not later become Christians and be saved.
You certainly can, and Paul did just that in 1 Co 10…
I have one on my website, if you’d like to check it out.
http://godskingdomfirst.org/OnceSaved.htm
Hi there, coming from a Way Ministry background we need to remember that lots of what we were taught was not documented and we all know most of what was documented was done so wrongly as the whole premise was built on administrations.
My husband I were talking about your OSAS question and remembered the example DR.W used of the button on a string which represented the holy spirit and the glass of water represented the person. He said the folks who teach that you can loose your holy spirit see the button as popping in and out of the glass of water. He said his heavenly father could do a better job that and the truth was that once you were saved you were always saved and all hell …. etc. because Romans 10:9 says shall be saved and that shall means absolute. So no scriptural references in that little example of the button and the glass of water! Does it ring any bells? He also changed the word saved into being ‘made whole’ which tied in with the ‘body, soul and spirit’ doctrine and also converted saved into being ‘born again’.
Is there no one out there who had repented and believed the gospel of the kingdom who kept those awful books? Mine offended me so I threw them away long ago.
As for the OSAS discussion.
How did we ever accept that shall in Roman 10:9 was an absolute – meaning now? Shall is always future. Try and fit the word shall into a sentence that means now. The nearest I can get is. ‘I shall do it now.’ The now is the operative word, shall is still future. The dictionary definition of shall is: Used before a verb showing something that will take place or exist in the future. A promise, obligation or something inevitable.
That shall in Romans 10:9 is not an absolute now.
Are people here talking about being saved NOW? I think it would help to clarify ones definition of saved.
Saved does not mean made whole, neither does it mean born again. It means saved or safe. Safe/saved from what?
If one stays faithful one will be saved from God’s wrath. Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. This is speaking of God’s wrath, it is from His wrath He wants man to be saved/safe. We are living here and now and sometimes suffer man’s wrath but if one stays faithful to the end of ones life they will be saved from God’s wrath. It is in the future that those who remain faithful will be safe/saved when He vents His wrath.
We have to see that in 1 Cor 15:1,2 there is a big fat IF in there. How can it be OSAS with verses like this and ones already referenced by others here in this discussion? Also.
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Then of course there is the parable of the sower and the seed, 4 different types of ground – only one remains and brings forth fruit. The others have the word but it does not remain. I’m sure the verses above from 2 Peter cover the way side, the stony ground and the thorny ground of Luke 8: 11-15.
The individual chooses whether to remain good ground. Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen (eklektos the elect).
Actually, if I remember correctly, he said “shall” was absolute future, in contrast with “will” which was a less certain future. In other words, “you will” means maybe, while “you shall” means definitely. Still crap tho’.
John E
You said:
You can always suggest that, true, but the Scripture says different. Paul and Barnabas clearly told their unbelieving fellow Jews that they lost their salvation – that is not to say that these Jews could not later become Christians and be saved.
I guess I’m still unclear – If you tell an unbelieving Jew he lost his salvation what salvation did they lose? if they are at a later date becoming Christians and being saved?
Also you cited 1Cor 10 as a proof that death means loss of salvation? Which verses are you referring to where a person was saved in Christ and died indicating he lost his salvation?
Prita,
It’s quite simple Prita. They lost their potential salvation. But if I lose something, it doesn’t mean I will not find it later. Nevertheless, considering their current stand regarding Christ, they were then, at that time, unworthy of everlasting life, without salvation. Who knows, maybe they became followers of Christ later and will be saved; or not, maybe they remained opposed to Christ, and will not be saved.
No, I didn’t say “death means loss of salvation”. It is death imparted by God to those who He does not approve, that means loss of salvation, His executing them. One of the effects of God’s salvation is eternal life. What God does, as 1 Co 10 shows, is sentencing (and executing) these idolaters (3000 of them) and immoral people (23.000 of them) to death, the exact opposite of being awarded eternal life. No wonder why: Paul clearly shows God was not well-pleased with them (vs. 5). They didn’t have God’s favor, He was against them because they really were idolaters and immoral. In Paul’s mind, this means they lost their salvation since he just said 4 chapters earlier that:
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
This idea that these people will not inherit the kingdom of God reminds me of what Jesus said in the parable of the sheep and the goats. Jesus tells those at his right:
“Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you” (Mt 25:34),
but to those at his left:
“Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels” (vs. 41)
The ones inheriting the kingdom are “blessed” by God, which is the exact opposite of God executing his death punishment on those adulterers; He doesn’t bless those who He’s not “well-pleased” with. It is clear that those who inherited the kingdom were saved, and those who didn’t were not.
prita,
when I said
I was referring to the fact that you were arguing that no one can know (agnostic = not known or knowable) which is correct OSAS or NOSAS
Sean – My mistake. I appreciate the clarification.
Georgie,
you said,
I have responded to this comment in my post entitled, Salvation: Three Tenses
Mark C. ,
Thank you for those verses. I listed them on a blank page in my
Bible under OSAS?. We will do well to remember them and to remind others by them of the wisdom God has given us in order
that we might obtain the fullness of our salvation in Christ.
For the church to go on leaving wisdom behind is not wise and
costs us so much trouble.
Some have preached the gospel contrary to the gospel and we
should always be watching ourselves in order that it not happen
to us. Having received a good understanding in the gospel, if so
be that we have, we should know when we have erred, or when
our feet have slipped.
Maybe we should ask ourselves if Jesus preached OSAS. Didn’t
he often warn us so strongly just as if the whole world was
deceived by sin? I suppose it likely was and still so much of it
may be. Maybe we should ask oursevles, “How far have we really
advanced the gospel?” Could it be that Satan has advanced his
agenda in these days more than the church has advanced in the
kingdom?
For those of you looking for verses people have used to support
OSAS, here’s another one- Eph 1:13, which speaks of our sealing
by the holy spirit after we believed. Some have said that there’s no
way Satan can break that seal, thus the thinking is OSAS, but I
think of our sealing by the holy spirit as the purpose God intended,
which is that we be to the praise of his glory who first trusted in
Christ (God). The only way we can be to the praise of God’s glory
is to first believe the gospel and thereby receive the holy spirit, the
gift of God and that is unto his purpose and that purpose is sealed
by God’s own signet, much like the king of Babylon once sealed
Daniel in the Lion’s den -See Daniel 6:17 where the stone was laid
upon the mouth of the den and sealed with the king’s signet. Is
there a connection here with the gospel of Jesus? I think so.
God’s purpose in Christ is manyfold, that we become dead to the
old and live according to the new, which is Christ.
It’s interesting that after Paul mentions the sealing with the holy
spirit, he didn’t go preaching OSAS did he? There’s something wrong with OSAS isn’t there?
I don’t want to be caught preaching it. I would rather be found
warning others and also encouraging them to continue in Christ
who is our salvation in order that we might attain unto eternal
life.
Though I consider that I have eternal life because I have received
Christ, I do not consider myself one who has attained unto it, as
my future is yet ahead of me, and I have a long ways to go. As I
go, I plan on going on by faith in the same good news as I heard,
thus continuing in my journey to God and my saviour Jesus Christ
who does await the faithful in the eternal city of God.
Sometimes I am amazed by those who have preached the gospel
for years, or at least preached verses from the gospel, and have
done great and mighty works, because sometimes I have seen
their sins and when I told them of it, suddenly instead of justification by faith through the power of the cross, they have gone back to pointing to their great works comparing theirs to mine, and that’s not the gospel I have heard, and so they have
gone on in their sins, never hearing from them again on those matters, and I wonder if they ever received their justification in
Christ. If they had, maybe they forgot it, or went on without it.
I only hope they get back to it.
We never know what lies ahead for us. There are many trials and
temptations we must endure in order to be saved. Because we have believed we have all the help of God and Jesus that is legal,
right, merciful and just, and so we are not alone in this endeavor.
Therefore we hope in God by Jesus Christ. May we never loose that
hope, but hold it firm unto the end, for it is the anchor of our souls.
It is the message of the cross. Let the cross be our anchor then.
Correcton.
I shouldn’t have said that going on without wisdom costs us trouble, rather doing so has cost us so much and caused us so
much trouble.
Hi,
FYI – I recently wrote a short document about three different doctrines on salvation; i.e., on obtaining everlasting life. One of those three doctrines is the well-known “Once Saved, Always Saved” doctrine. Here is a copy-and-paste of that document.
Three Christian Doctrines, about Obtaining Everlasting Life
This document describes three different Christian doctrines, about obtaining everlasting life. In other words, those three doctrines attempt to explain what Christians need to do, in order to be granted immortality when Jesus returns. (Note: to my knowledge, the second and third doctrines listed in this document do not have any “official” names. As a result, I had to “create” names for those two doctrines.)
The following is a brief description of each of the three doctrines; along with verses that are frequently used to support each doctrine, and my commentary on each doctrine. At the very end of this document, my overall opinion on this subject is presented.
Doctrine 1: “Once Saved, Always Saved” – According to this doctrine, if you ever accept Jesus as your lord, then from that point on, you are guaranteed to be granted everlasting life – even if you subsequently make a deliberate, conscious decision to reject Jesus as your lord.
Verses used to support this doctrine: Acts 16:30-31; Rom 8:38-39; Rom 10:9; Eph 4:30; 1 Pet 1:23; 1 Cor 3:12-15
In this doctrine, as soon as you accept Jesus as your lord, God takes away your free will. In other words, from that point on, you no longer have any choice to reject Jesus; because even if you later decide that you don’t want Jesus to be your lord any more, God will still force you to live in the Kingdom – under Jesus’ rule.
Doctrine 2: “Endure Until The End” – According to this doctrine, if you are currently following Jesus as your lord, when he returns, then you will be granted everlasting life. If you are not following Jesus when he returns, then you will not be granted everlasting life – even if you used to follow Jesus. (If you die before Jesus returns, then if you were following Jesus when you died, you will be granted everlasting life.)
Verses used to support this doctrine: 1 Cor 15:1-2; Col 1:21-23; Heb 6:9-12; 1 Thes 3:8; 1 Cor 10:9-12; 2 Tim 2:12; Rom 8:17; 2 Pet 1:10-11; Mat 24:9-13; Luke 23:39-43
In this doctrine, God never takes away anyone’s free will. People always have the choice to accept Jesus – or to reject Jesus – no matter what they have done in the past. So, in this doctrine, whoever is currently following Jesus, when he returns, will be granted everlasting life. Whoever is not currently following Jesus, when he returns, will not be granted everlasting life.
Doctrine 3: “Never Turn Away” – According to this doctrine, if you are currently following Jesus as your lord, when he returns – and if you never rejected Jesus, after you had accepted him – then you will be granted everlasting life. If you ever made a deliberate, conscious decision to reject Jesus, after you had accepted him as your lord, then you will not be granted everlasting life – even if you are currently following Jesus when he returns.
Verses used to support this doctrine: Heb 6:4-6; 2 Pet 2:20-22; Mat 26:23-24
In this doctrine, if you ever decide to reject Jesus, after you had previously accepted him, then God takes away your free will. In other words, as soon as you reject Jesus, you no longer have any choice to accept him again – because even if you do sincerely accept Jesus again, God will still prevent you from entering the Kingdom – permanently.
In my opinion, the doctrine that appears to be the most “consistent” with scripture is the “Endure Until The End” doctrine. First of all, the verses that support that doctrine are the most convincing to me. In addition, that doctrine is the only one of the three listed, in which God does not take away people’s free will. Over and over again, scripture exhorts people to obey God and Jesus – and that, in turn, implies that we have free will. So, if any doctrine claims that God takes away free will from people, then that doctrine is suspect – unless scripture explicitly states that God does take away our free will in some cases. So far, I have not found any verse that states that God takes away our free will – and as a result, I believe that the “Endure Until the End” doctrine is the closest to the truth.
Brian
Brian,
Thanks for taking the time to do this. I appreciate the logic behind your post and I agree with you. You speak of free will, which no doubt is a good angle to approach this question, but I’m curious what verses you would use to support the notion that we have free will. I can think of a couple, but I’m sure if any of our Calvinist friends read your assessment of salvation, they would reject it out of hand because your argument rests on the notion of libertarian free will.
Hi Sean,
Well, I am a bit surprised to hear that there are Calvinists who read this blog – I would have assumed that almost all of people who come to this site were biblical unitarians.
In my view, any verse that exhorts people to obey God or Jesus – or to resist sin – indicates that we do have free will. Here are some verses that I can think of off the top of my head, which certainly appear to indicate that we have control over our actions:
Genesis 4:6-7 – If we do not have free will, then it does not make sense for God to tell Cain that he must “master” sin.
Deuteronomy 30:15-20 – If we do not have free will, then it does not make sense for Moses to tell the Israelites to choose life (i.e., choose to obey God).
Philemon 1:10-14 – If we do not have free will, then it does not make sense for Paul to ask Philemon to treat Onesimus as a Christian brother. (The NASB and the HCSB explicitly use the phrase “free will” in verse 14.)
1 Peter 5 (entire chapter) – If we do not have free will, then it does not make sense for Peter to exhort the elders to shepherd their flocks voluntarily; and it also does not make sense for him to tell everyone to resist the devil. (In the NASB, that chapter is titled “Serve God Willingly”.)
Brian
I’m reading J.D.G. Dunn’s The Theology of Paul the Apostle, and he throws the following questions regarding 1Cor 3.10-15.
what law is being spoken of?
The Law of God
Mosaic law
Judaic Law.
Lets eliminate
Judaic law is the oral interpretation of Mosaic law which added over 1000 attachments to the law that God gave to Moses. This law was not given or inspired By God. These laws were added to govern over the Jews during the second temple. these are the laws that Jesus and Paul spoke against so heavily. When ever Jesus was told something was not lawful you will not find that law in either God’s law or Mosaic law. You will find it only existed in the oral law(Judaic law)
so this cant what God would write in the hearts of Non Israelites .
Mosaic law is the law that God gave Moses to govern over the Israelites when they came into their nation and for all Joined them.
The problem with this being that law is the blessing wasn’t the whole earth becoming Israel It was that the blessing was to be offered to the whole earth(the gentiles).
The Law of God is the law given directly by God to the people to provide Mercy to a thousand generations. that mercy is the grace spoken of and is offered to all who love God and His ways spoken of in the Ten commandments. The same laws that Jeremiah speaks of being written in the hearts and minds of those of the New covenant.
There was also Sacrificial laws with in Mosaic laws for atonement
Paul never spoke against the Law of God or Mosaic law , He did however show some changes made within the Sacrificial law to expand the blessing to the whole earth
robert,
Its most likely that Paul in Rom 2.14-15 was referring to the Old covenantal laws, which were the only ones he could refer to at that time. And the only ones those Gentiles mentioned could’ve known since they were not believers of either Judaism or Christianity.
Then again, these could include the “law of Christ” of which he later speaks in Rom 10.
Either way, what is your answer to the questions?
since Jerimiah only knew of Mosaic law and God’s law then it has to be one.
My guess is the one that was complete, Mosaic still lacked total completeness.
“This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time,’ declares the LORD.
‘I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people’” (Jer. 31:33).
since God says my LAW then God’s law it is.
what was stoney is now fleshy
lets say God’s law written in the heart and mind with the testamony of Jesus and the new sacraficial laws Jesus brought about is enough for a gentile.
The point was to show Jesus and Paul only spoke against the Oral Laws of the jews not against the morals of Mosaic or God’s Law.
the law of Christ is only the Law of His Father which Jerimiah and all of the prophets speak of. Jesus just explained a few of them more completely