Death – No Gateway To Heaven
August 1st, 2009 by Ron S.
In Gen. 3:1, Satan speaks for the first time in the scriptures. He asks Eve (by the Figure Erotesis for emphasis), “Yea, hath God said,” or “Can it be that God hath said…?” In Gen. 3:4, Satan’s second utterance, we read, “And the serpent said unto the woman, ‘Ye shall not surely die’… “ This is a plain contradiction of God’s Word in Gen. 2:17. As one has said long ago, “This has become the foundation of spiritism and traditional belief as to death.”
Let us search the Scriptures for ourselves and see what God has said and inspired His saints to record regarding the dead. After the fall of Adam in Gen. 3:6, when he deliberately disobeyed what the Lord had commanded in Gen. 2:16-17, we read in Gen. 3:19 God saying to Adam, “In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread till thou return unto the ground; for out of it was thou wast taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou re turn.” Notice that there is no mention of the traditional “hell.” The sentence is that man returns to dust. In Job 14 we read in verse 10, “But man dieth and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?” Verse 12 reads, “So man lieth down and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.” Verses 13-15 read, “O Thou that wouldest hide me in the grave, that Thou wouldest keep me secret, until Thy wrath be past, that Thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? All the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Thou shalt call, and I will answer Thee…”
These verses in Job 14 teach us that Job, a believer in Jehovah God, acknowledges that man is but dust and returns to dust at death. In that state, Job, as a believer, awaits a resurrection when God will call him to awake, and Job will answer. Death is but a sleep to the believer. This is what our Lord taught in John 11, and what Paul taught in I Thess. 4 and I Cor. 15. We shall speak of these passages later.
In Psalm 89:48 the writer says, “What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? Shall he deliver his soul (himself), from the hand (power) of the grave?” We read in Psalm 115:17, “The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.” Psalm 49 teaches that man is not able to redeem himself, but is doomed to corruption. He is like the beasts that parish (vs. 12 & 20). God alone redeems us from the grave or dust (v.15).
In Ecclesiastes 9:5 we read that the living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward (advantage) for the memory of them is forgotten (ceases to exist). The context of Ecclesiastes 12 concerns the approaching old age of the individual. The once strong body is now like a frail trembling person unable to help himself. Verse 7 tells us that dust (body) returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
The word for spirit is the Hebrew word roach, not nephesh (soul). According to Gen. 2:7, the Lord God formed man of the dust of the earth, or ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath (Heb.- rieshamah) of life and man became a living soul (Heb.- nephesh). So man is a soul, and without life (given by God) man is or becomes a dead soul. It is the spirit, or life, that God gives and takes away. There are no souls (as separate parts of the person) in Heaven. What did our Lord say just before He died in Luke 23:46? “And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, He said, Father, into Thy hands I commend My spirit: and having said thus, He gave up the ghost.” Jesus breathed life and it was committed into the Father’s care. Jesus for three days and three nights was dead.
Now back to the Old Testament again to see what God caused to be recorded. In Gen. 25:8 we read, “Then Abraham save up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people.” This last phrase is an idiomatic figure or expression for death and burial. Abraham’s people were idolaters. See Joshua 24:2. So Abraham, the man of God, the man of faith, at his death went, to the grave (dust of the earth), just as his people did who were idolaters.
In Gen. 35:29 we read, “And Isaac gave up the ghost, and died, and was gathered unto his people, being old and full of days: and his sons Esau and Jacob buried him.” In Gen. 49:29 we read, “And he (Jacob) charged them, and said unto them, I am to be gathered unto my people: bury me with my fathers in the cave that is in the field of Ephron the Hittite.” Verse 33 reads, “And when Jacob had made an end of commanding his sons, he gathered up his feet into the bed, and yielded up the ghost, and was gathered unto his people.” Again we say that this expression gathered unto his people” was a Hebrew idiom used for death and burial. There is no suggestion here of any one going to a place of bliss. It will take the resurrection power of God to raise the dead ones. In Deut. 32:49 the Lord told Moses to go up to Mount Nebo to view the land of Canaan. In verse 50 God said, “And die in the mount…and be gathered unto thy people; as Aaron thy brother died in Mount Hor, and was gathered unto his people.”
In Deut. 34:5-7 we have recorded the burial of Moses by Jehovah, which is said of no other. Verse 5, “So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord.” Verse 6, “And He buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Beth-Peor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.” Verse 7, “And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim nor his natural force abated.”
In Psalm 6:5, David in his prayer said, “For in death there is no remembrance of Thee. In the grave who shall give Thee thanks?” Also, in Psalm 30:9, “What profit is there in my ‘blood’ (or life), when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise Thee? Shall it declare Thy truth?” Lev. 17:11 say, “For the life of the flesh is in the blood…”
Turning now to the New Testament we see in John 3:16, “… that whosoever believeth in Him (Christ) should not perish, but have everlasting life.” And in John 3:36, “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life…” Again in John 5:24, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word and believeth on Him That sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.” These verses do not teach us that the believer will not die, for in the very next verse the Lord tells us, “…The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.” This living is in the resurrection. The eternal life promised us will be fulfilled completely in the resurrection.
In John 11 we see the glory of God shown by the raising of Lazarus from the dead. In verse 11 Jesus said to His disciples, “…Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.” Take note here that Lazarus, the brother of Mary and Martha, was already dead. He was not in Heaven. Verses 13 and 14 tell us exactly what the Lord meant in verse 11 when He said, “Lazarus sleepeth.” Verse 14 reads, “Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.” Now Lazarus is seen here as already decaying (verse 39). In verse 24, Martha says to the Lord, “I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.” She did not believe that her brother was in some place of bliss, such as Abraham’s bosom. This is the error that the unbelieving Pharisees taught the Jews. It was a false teaching that the Lord exposed in Luke 16 when He addressed these unbelieving Pharisees.
We remember the Old Testament teaching that man is a soul (Gen. 2:7), and that at death his spirit, or life, goes back to God who gave it. In John 11:33, when Jesus saw Mary weeping, and the Jews which come with her, He groaned in the spirit (or Himself), and was troubled. The word groaned has the meaning to snort as a horse does from fear or anger. Hence, to feel strong emotion or be indignant. The grave, or death, is the realm of Satan, and Christ was about to remove Lazarus from this realm ahead of the resurrection time. The Lord was soon to go to the cross and die and be raised to break the power of the grave which Satan held. Of course, Lazarus had to die again as he did not have a resurrected body. This whole context of chapter 11 was to show forth the glory of God as Jesus said in verse 40.
If you, as a Christian, one who believes in the Lord Jesus Christ as your own personal Saviour, believe that upon death a part of you can exist apart from the body, (which is exactly what the unbelieving Pharisees taught the Jews) and this part of you is enjoying himself in this state, then tell me: why did the Lord bring back Lazarus to this realm of woe and sorrow? Also, why was the command given to the twelve in Matthew 10:8 to raise the dead? And again, why did Elijah the prophet raise from the dead the widow’s son in I Kings 17:17-24? And why did Paul in Acts 20:10 bring to life Eutychus, who was taken up dead?
There is no place in the Scriptures where any who were raised from death ever spoke of being in Heaven, or in a place of bliss. Turn to Acts 2:29. Peter, speaking to the Jewish people shortly after the day of Pentecost, said, “Men and brethren, let me freely (or frankly) speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre (or tomb) is with us unto this day.” Can anyone truthfully say that David, in some form, has gone to Heaven to be with Christ? What does verse 34 tell us? “For David is not ascended into the heavens…”
Peter had just received the promise of God spoken of in Luke 24:49 by the resurrected Christ. This promise was to be endued (or filled) with power from on high. Peter received this on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:1-4. We must believe this spirit-filled man when he said David has not ascended up to the heavens. David is to be seen as still sleeping in the dust. He is awaiting the call to life by his Lord.
In Acts 13, we find the apostle Paul speaking in Antioch (in Pisidia) to the men of Israel, and those that fear God. In verses 16-37, Paul is giving forth a short summary of the history of Israel as a nation. The climax of this discussion is that God sent His son to Israel to be their Savior; they crucified Him, but God raised Him up. In verses 35-37 Paul writes, “Wherefore He saith also in another psalm, ‘Thou shalt not suffer Thine Holy One to see corruption’, for David after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption. But He, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.” Here we see the contrast between David and God’s Son, Jesus Christ.
The expression “fell on sleep” is used by Paul for David’s dying and remaining in the grave, or state of death, until resurrection. David’s body experienced decay and corruption. Christ’s body did not see corruption as he was raised the third day. So Paul’s teaching agrees with Peter concerning the state of David. Paul, the apostle of God, and chosen by God to preach good news to the nations concerning His Son Jesus Christ, was inspired to reveal more light on the death of the believer and his resurrection from the state of death.
In 1 Cor. 15:12-23 Paul answers the objection of some in his day who said that there is no resurrection of dead ones. Paul said, “…if there be no resurrection of dead ones then Christ never was raised.” In verse 17, Paul carries the case one step further and said, “…if Christ be not raised, then is our preaching vain (to no purpose), ye are yet in your sins.” Verse 18, “Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.” Note here, the believers who have died (fallen asleep) are also perished. If believers go immediately to Heaven at death, could Paul have uttered this strong statement “are also perished”? In verse 20 Paul shouts forth the truth: “But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.”
Note how often in these Scriptures we read of them that sleep, have fallen asleep, asleep in Christ. We cannot ignore these words which the Holy Spirit inspired, and say of the dead that they are not really dead, but immediately ushered into God’s presence. Paul tells us in verse 22, “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” Verse 23, “But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at His coming.” Christ is and has to come again. Verse 26 tells us the last enemy to be Destroyed is death. Death has not yet been put down, but because of Christ’s death and resurrection Satan’s hold on the power of death will eventually be put down.
We as believers in Christ are yet mortals, but we have the promise of immortality. In l Tim. 6:16 Scripture says that God only has immortality. In l Cor. 15:51-55 we see more of God’s truth being revealed or made known. In verses 51 and 53 Paul says, “Behold, I shew you a mystery (secret); We shall not all sleep, but tie shall all be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.” Paul then says that when all the above happens, then shall be brought to pass the word that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory. O death where is thy sting? O grave where is thy victory?” See Isaiah 25:8 and Hosea 13:14. When Paul wrote these truths to the Corinthians, during the Acts period, Israel as a nation was on trial before God. The rulers and high priests had rejected their Messiah who had come according to their prophets. God answered Christ’s prayer on the cross, “Father forgive them for they know not what they do.” So Israel had a second chance to repent as a nation and turn to Jesus their Messiah as Peter states in Acts 2 and 3. But stubborn Israel refused and God started to deal with individuals rather than the nation of Israel. The time element was such that Israel’s Great Tribulation, the time of Jacob’s Trouble spoken by Daniel the prophet, was very close at hand.
Paul’s message in l Cor. 15 includes truths concerning this period of Israel’s tribulation as seen in verses 51 and 52. Paul expected that he could be one of those that would be alive at the end time of Israel’s Great Tribulation. In verse 51 Paul said, “Behold, I shew (or tell) you a mystery (secret); We shall not all sleep (but be actually alive), but we shall all be changed (that is we shall instantly put on a resurrected body). Verse 52, “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we (the living) shall be changed.” Verse 53, “For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.” Verse 54, “So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, ‘Death is swallowed up in victory.” Verse 55, “O death, where is thy sting? O grave where is thy victory?”
These verses teach us that at this time, the living believer, as well as the dead believer in Christ, must put on a resurrected, glorified body in order to be a partaker in Christ’s Second Coming. The dead ones have to be made alive and be clothed in an incorruptible body, and the living mortals must put on immortality, or instantly be changed with a spiritual glorified body.
Another area in the Scriptures that is constantly used by both preachers and laymen is 2Cor. 5:8. This verse is taken out of its context to show that at death the believer is immediately alive in Heaven. This is not what the verse or context teaches us. The subject matter from 4:14 to 5:8 is the believer’s resurrection and his present body and resurrection body. We have the Apostle Paul explaining to the Corinthians in 5:1 that there is a spiritual body that God has in His power to give at the time of resurrection. In verse 2 Paul says, ”For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house (habitation) which is from Heaven.” Paul expected and looked for the return of the Lord in his own lifetime during the period covered by the book of Acts. He earnestly wanted a changed body (the one spoken of in 5:1). Paul did not want to die, but rather the opposite, he wanted to be alive at Christ’s coming.
Paul said in 5:4, “For we that are in this tabernacle (or body) do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed (dead and in a naked state with no body), but clothed upon (with that new or resurrected spiritual body of v. 1), that mortality (this mortal one) might be swallowed up by life (eternal life).” Paul was looking for the return of Christ in his lifetime, and so while still living in the flesh he could groan for that new body. He could not groan at all if he were dead. He did not want to be found naked, or dead, at Christ’s coming, but, hoped to be alive, or clothed.
In verse 6 Paul explains that if we are at home (alive) in this body, we are absent from the Lord (without a change taking place or resurrection we do not see Christ). Verse 8 is often taken out of the context of resurrection, to tell people that their loved ones who have died are now with the Lord. This is not what Paul is saying at all.
He sums up the context from 4:14 to 5:8 which concerns the earthly body (mortal) and the spiritual body (resurrection body). Paul in verse 8 would be well pleased and delighted to leave this body (mortal body) and to be present with the Lord (in his resurrected body). Now the error that is prevalent is, that apart from resurrection one at death can be immediately with the Lord. This error is taught in spite of what Paul teaches in 1 Tim. 6:16, that God only has immortality. God will give us mortals immortality, but only in resurrection, not at death. Paul said in l Cor. 15:53, “This mortal must put on immortality.” This is in the context of resurrection.
At almost every funeral we find the preacher contradicting his message in which he has assured the bereaved that their loved one is now in God’s presence. After he quotes 2 Cor. 5:8 and not the previous verses of the context, he will most likely turn to l Thess. 4:14-18. These verses flatly contradict teaching that at death the believer departs to be with the Lord. Let us examine the context of this passage more closely. Both epistles to the Thessalonians contain teaching concerning the soon coming of the Lord as predicted by the Lord himself in Matt. 24 and Acts 1:1-7. The exact time of Christ’s second coming was not for His disciples to know, but the signs of that early period of Acts pointed to His soon appearance. Paul taught these things during all of his missionary journeys, and wrote of them in 1 & 2 Thess. and also in 1 & 2 Cor. In 1 Thess. 1:10 Paul admonishes the believers who turned from idols to serve the true and living God, “…to wait for His Son from Heaven, Whom He raised out from the dead, even Jesus which delivered us from the wrath to come.” These believers in Christ were told to wait, to look for Christ’s coming in their lifetime. But now since Paul had first visited them, some of the new converts had died. This had caused much sorrow among them, for now their dead ones would miss Christ’s coming.
So Paul had to write words of comfort to these people and he does this in l Thess. 4:13-18. In verse 13 Paul writes, “I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep (have died), that you sorrow not, even as others (unbelievers) which have no hope.” Notice the expression Paul uses here as he does so much elsewhere, ‘them which are asleep.’ For Paul this meant that death is likened to sleep. Now in verse 14 Paul is showing the bereaved ones why they should not sorrow over their dead ones. “For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God (through Jesus) bring with Him.”
Here are the comforting words of Paul for the bereaved saints. They will come with Jesus at His coming to earth. But, you say, they are sleeping in death. Yes, but the next few verses explain how they will come with the Lord. Verse 15: “For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive (have not died) and remain unto the coming of the Lord, shall not precede (go ahead) them which are asleep.” The living believers, or saints, will not go ahead of the sleeping ones to meet the Lord. In verses 16 and 17 Paul explains just how this takes place and the sequence of events. “For the Lord Himself hath descend from heaven with a shout (word of command), with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive, and remain (the living believers at this event), shall be caught up (snatched away) together with them (the risen dead ones) in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so (by this order of events) shall we ever be with the Lord.”
This context then reveals the truth of God for this great event and the sequence in which it unfolds. These words of Paul were given to comfort the believers in verse 13. Do you not see the contradiction of words of those who tell us our loved ones are already enjoying the bliss of Heaven? Friends, it takes the resurrection time to unite the dead believers into a living spiritural or resurrection body. The Scriptures demand such an explanation. It seems to me that it is high time for the scriptural truth to be taught regarding the state of the dead that the Holy Spirit has given us to understand.
To sum up this teaching regarding the state of the believer who has died in Christ, we offer the following points:
1. Adam was created by God and was, or became, a living soul when God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (Gen. 2:7). There is no basis for teaching that the man Adam had a soul in this or any other passage of Scripture.
2. If Adam disobeyed God by eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, Adam would die (Gen 2:17).
3. Satan told Eve that she would not surely die (Gen. 3:4).
4. The penalty of death was to return to the dust of the earth (Gen. 3:17-19).
5. The Old Testament teaches us that at death, the believers in Jehovah their God, gave up the spirit and were gathered to their people. This was an idomatic expression for dying and being buried, just as their people before them had done
Gen. 49:29-33; 35:29; Deut. 32:48-50.6. The Psalms and Ecclesiastes teach that at death the spirit (that which is life) goes back to God who gave it. Also, in death, there is no memory, for the dead know nothing (Psalms 89:48; 115:17; Ecc. 9:5; 12:7).
7. Our Lord taught His disciples that belief in Him would assure them of eternal life. They had this hope and joy within them, but it was in the resurrection that this promise was to be fully realized (John 10:27,28; 11:25,26; 5:24; 3:14-13; 3:36).
8. The expressions asleep, asleep in Christ, fallen asleep, and dead in Christ, were used by Christ and the Apostle Paul to show that the believer who had died was not to remain in the grave or death state forever. The time in the grave for the believer is so short that it is likened to going to sleep at night and awakening in the morning. Time for the dead believer does not exist (John 11:11-15; Acts 13:36; l Cor. 15:18-20; l Thess. 4:13-18).
9. Paul teaches us that only in the resurrected body can the saint, or Christian, be at home with the Lord. No one lives in Heaven apart from his resurrection body. Paul strongly affirms that only God has immortality in Himself. We as living or dead believers have to put on immortality, and this is not when we die, but when Christ raises us up at resurrection
(1 Cor. 15:42-44 & 51-55; 2 Cor. 5:1-8; l Tim. 6:14-16).
BTW, if anyone would like a more printer-friendly version of this article, go to this link: http://www.tftmin.org/miscauthors/Deathnogate.htm
Hello
the mentioned problem with the teaching of many established denominations concerning “going to be with the Lord at death” is most definitely a problem because they teach a contradiction:
(1) the coming of the Lord and resurrection of the dead is still future, and
(2) believers live immediately after death with the Lord (and thus, PRIOR to the resurrection from the dead being a reality!)
The real question to ask is this:
What will happen to those folks who are born and will live on earth at and after the coming of the Lord (when the resurrection from the dead has become a reality and those who died prior to that time have been raised “to ever be with the Lord”) when they reach the end of their earthly life? Will they also go to hades and await yet another coming of the Lord? or will they be immediately (in the twinkling of an eye) upon their last breath be changed and caught up to be with the Lord?
Cheers,
Wolfgang
Wolfgang,
Those who choose to live for God post-return will either never die or they will die and be resurrected in the second resurrection. I suppose we’ll find out when it happens.
Hi Sean,
why would you want to guess?
The writings of the apostle Paul and other NT writers provide information concerning what will happen …. those who are alive will be changed in a moment, and never go to hades (seeing that death and hades will have been destroyed) but immediately be caught up to ever be with the Lord. Why would terms such as “caught UP” be used, if believers would remain “DOWN HERE” on earth?
Cheers,
Wolfgang
Hi Sean,
what do you understand under “the second resurrection”? what do you understand under “the first resurrection”?
Cheers,
Wolfgang
After the consumption of the forbidden fruit, they became dead
in tresspasses and sins, though in the very day that they ate thereof they did not die physically, a showing here of God’s mercy
and also the severity disobedience can bring.
In Matthew, Jesus said that God is not the God of the dead, but of
the living. (Matthew 22:32)
In the same verse he reminded them that God said he is the God
of Abraham, Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
From one perspective they are dead, for they died here upon earth,
their bodies having fallen lifeless. But Jesus reminded us that God
is not the God of the dead but of the living and that he is the God
of those he mentioned who had died.
This verse brought me about to consider carefully that Abraham,
Isaac, and Jacob are with the Lord in heaven even as their bodies
remained lifeless here on this earth. I do not believe the resurrection has taken place yet. (see II Tim 2:18)
We can not contact those who have died and went on to be with
the Lord, but we can cast all our care upon God who is able to communicate with them. If there is anything between us and them
(who have passed on that we did not take care of), God is able to
heal us and take care of such things.
I heard from a man who goes around giving his testimony of how
he died and was dead for an hour and 45 minutes, having the medical records and the testimony of his wife to prove it. I am sure
he could produce other witnesses if it were necessary. As I heard
him tell of his experience I had no need to question if he was telling
the truth or if what he went through was real.
I ordered his book yesterday which tells of what he saw. He also
has been working with some pastors to produce scriptures that go
along with his experience. It should be a very enlightening book.
It should open up much of the scriptures that God wants to open
up to us.
You may search out the man’s name. I think you can find out where
to make the order. I know he is keeping the price down. He also
has had a lot of free material he gives out.
His name is Dean Braxton.
Ray,
You said:
This is just bad hermeneutics. You’re missing the entire context of what Jesus was saying in Matthew 22:23-32.
What is recorded there is a conversation between Jesus and the Sadducees who didn’t believe in a resurrection at all. Jesus says what he says there to PROVE they were wrong and that there has to be a resurrection of the dead – note how he begins his response with “But regarding the resurrection of the dead…“. It has nothing to do with any kind of immortality of the soul – that is reading an a priori assumption into the verses there.
And ask yourself this. If Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob are alive in heaven, how does Jesus’ argument prove the resurrection of the dead? It doesn’t.
No, the point of Jesus argument is that since the dead “know not anything” (Eccl 9:5) and they “will not awake, nor be aroused out of sleep” (Job 14:12), and God is a God of living people and not dead people (who can’t know Him or interact with Him – Psalm 6:5, 30:9), then those fathers MUST one day rise from the dead.
Also note that in Hebrews 11, we see that all these OT patriarchs never received the promises that God promised them of the land they would possess FOREVER. So for God to come through on those promises, He has to resurrect them back to life and allow them to possess the land (which is right here on earth) forever in the Kingdom.
And look at Hebrews 11:39-40. There we see an important truth that is very important to understand.
If they’re all already in Heaven this doesn’t make any sense. This is saying that we’re all going to be made perfect together at the same time. That doesn’t work at each individuals death and then getting sent to heaven. No, it only works if it is the resurrection of the dead that brings everyone together to be made perfect together. And that only happens at Jesus’ return as my favorite verse (1 Cor. 15:23) plainly says.
If we can believe that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are with God
in heaven, we are halfway to believing in a resurrection.
Concerning some things from Hebrews 11, I looked to the notes
from the 1599 Geneva. I like to see what the reformers of that day
saw that we today sometimes do not, for we have had different teachings. They did not receive some of the teachings we have had
in modern times.
Hebrews 11:39,40
And these all through faith obtained good report, and received not the promise,
God providing a better thing for us, that they without us should not
be made perfect.
I would like to try to say in my own words some of what is noted
in my 1599 Geneva:
Now we know that the subtance of faith is knowing that there is something we do not see. Now faith is the context of Hebrews 11.
Don’t we rightfully marvel at their faith, who did not see the things
that God had promised which did come, (Christ and the things he did which were promised in shadows and mysteries) with their physical eyes? They walked in faith which went with them to their
grave, yet lived in all who walked the path they also walked. The
promise to come was Christ which they did not yet see, except by
some revelations and things of the spirit which was in their hearts
by faith.
God provided something more plain and clear to us who came after that we might more perfectly enter into the kingdom of God by the
revelation of Jesus Christ, being evidently set forth and made plain,
which was hid in a figure of things in the past, whose faith joins with ours, even though they have past from this world and this life,
and we are in that sense without them. They once lived without us
and without the clarity that has been shown to us of the things that they by faith hoped for, which was Christ and his kingdom.
They plainly declared that they sought the country which is not of
this world. I believe they did attain to it by faith, without us. While
they were on this earth they were not made perfect, for the better
thing which we have received (the new and better way- the new covenant) they could only see afar off.
Hi Ron S.,
you wrote above:
As concerning the promise mentioned there, we should take the context into consideration:
Heb 11:15-16 says: ” If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, A HEAVENLY ONE. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.” We should not forget, that Abraham did NOT see an “earthly” land.
Heb 10:1 says: “the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities,” This, what the Law promised was not the reality of that which was to be received.
As far as the “earthly land” promise made to the patriarchs was actually fulfilled in the conquest of the land by Joshua. We read in Josh 21:43-45:
“43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.” Rather clear, isn’t it? How is it that folks want to flat out contradict what we read here by claiming that “NOT all came to pass”???
Cheers,
Wolfgang
Revelation 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth.
how is it Jesus was the first if many before him had first received it
In answer to your question in #11 Robert, how could it be except
to be begotton from the dead means the resurrection which no one yet has obtatined except Jesus, for he received the bodily
resurrection here on this earth, a thing which neither Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob have not yet received. Even Lazarus has not yet
obtained it though he was raised from the dead.
But if you read Joshua’s address in chapter 23, you see that he was saying that God had kept His promises regarding the land and the blessings, but if the people turned back and worshiped the gods of the people who were in the land, then God would also keep His promises about His punishment of wickedness.
The people did, in fact, turn to idolatry and wickedness, and although God patiently warned them over and over, eventually (nearly 1000 years later) He removed them from their land (Ezekiel 33:23-29; II Chronicles 36:15-21). When the children of Israel lived in that land for a time, it was not the complete fulfillment of the promises to Abraham, for it did not last, even though God said He would give the land to his descendants FOREVER. It was a temporary, conditional fulfillment designed as a foreshadowing of the ultimate fulfillment that was further foretold by the Old Testament Prophets, by Jesus, and by the New Testament writers. Hebrews 11:39-40 tells us that Israel did not receive the promise, “God having provided some better thing for us.”
The word “heavenly” refers to its origin, not to the fact that it is in heaven. I’m sure you’ve heard that before. As for whether Abraham saw an “earthly land” all one has to do is read the promises:
Genesis 12:
7 And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.
Genesis 13:
14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.
17 Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.
The Law being a shadow of the New Covenant has nothing to do with whether the promises to Abraham (430 years before the Law of Moses) included earthly land.
Dear Willard Smith, you said:
The Bible clearly does refute your statement:
“Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.” 2 Cor 5:6-8
(1) absence from the physical body means to be present with the Lord. Now if you cease to exist when your body dies, you will not be present with him when your body dies, will you?
(2) If you have to wait until the resurrection of your phisical body to be present with him, this contradicts the statement that you must be “absent from the body” to enjoy such presence. Certainly, this was not discussing the resurrection.
(3) Paul says that he RATHER (PREFERS) to be absent from the body so he can be with the Lord; would a sane person prefer non-existence over conscious communion with the Lord and with his brothers on earth? This preference only makes sense if there is consciousness after death.
Luke 16:19-31
Why The Rich Man and Lazarus must be a Real Life Account.
(1) Names are NEVER mentioned in the parables of Jesus. Jesus mentions two very real persons, Abraham and Lazarus.
(2) Even if it were a parable, parables of Jesus were ALWAYS true-to-life. He did not go around telling fantasy stories like Alice in Wonderland or Santa Clause. His illustrations were ALWAYS based on real life events that could, and did, use to happen. (He ALWAYS illustrated his teachings with things his disciples were familiar with). Why shock then with such an outlandish fairy tale?
(3) Jesus said “I am the truth.” He was the embodiment of truth itself. One could not immagine Jesus borrowing from pagan false religious beliefs to coin his parables. Jesus Christ would never illustrated the truth using a lie. For example, could you imagine Jesus using the Egyptian legend of Set killing his brother Osiris, and the god Isis reviving him with her magic spell, to illustrate his resurrection? Of course not! Jesus NEVER BORROWED PAGAN DOCTRINE as a basis for illustrating his truth.
(4) Jesus never explained what the rich man and Lazarus account meant, which he surely would have done for this outlandish, difficult narrative, that was unlike anything the Jews knew of (if they didn’t believe in hell of the immortal soul). The fact that Jesus didn’t explain its meaning as he did other parables, indicates that it was somehting his disciples were familiar with and would understand. It therefore must have coincided with reality; otherwise, they would want an explanation of what the heck he was talking about.
(5) Over and over the Bible is specific to say when Jesus was giving an illustration (Matt 13). It does not do so in Luke 16. The rich man and Lazarus account IS NEVER CALLED A PARABLE OR ILLUSTRATION in the Bible.
(6) In the illustration, Abraham talks about the state of conscious joy and torment after death. Jesus would never coin an illustration which depicts Abraham as teaching false doctrine.
(7) At Hebrews 9:9 the earthly tabernacle and its service was called a figure or illustration. Yet, it was a real account. At Gal 4:24 the storey of Abraham, his two wives and two sons is called an allegory; yet it did happen. This illustrates that Biblical illustrations or parables were based on fact, on truth. They were not fables, which attribute to things in nature characteristics they do not have. In fact, the Bible repudiates the idea of fables in the Gospel story. 2 Pet 1:16
Daley,
You wrote:
This is probably the most common misquotation with regard to the state of the dead. Nearly everyone says “To be absent from the body IS to be present with the Lord.” But this is not what the verses says. It says: “We are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.” From the many other verses in Paul’s epistles, we know that he believed this would happen at the return of Christ, not at the moment of his death. I urge you to read the articles on the Death is Sleep resource page (the link is at the top of this page) as well as my article about it (http://www.godskingdomfirst.org/TheDead.htm).
Hi there,
the passage in II Cor 5 does indeed teach that a state of “to be absent from the body” is linked to the state of “to be present with the Lord”.
Now, I agree (and have already mentioned) that prior to the coming of the Lord and the resurrection having become a reality, the dead believers are not present with the Lord, even though they are “absent from the body”. However, with the coming of the Lord and the resurrection as a reality the truth of “absent from the body” “present with the Lord” does not all of a sudden change to “present with the Lord” “being present in the body”, does it? Yet this is exactly what many folks with their future earthly physical and political kingdom ideas promote … and thereby they also miss and wrongly interpret what Paul wrote in II Cor 5!
Where was the Lord present when Paul wrote? Did Paul write that in order to be present with the Lord, the resurrected or changed believers would have to again be “present in the body”? No! What did Paul teach here? He clearly and in very simple terms taught that in order to be present with the Lord (which we can know from other scriptures, he expected to be at the time of the coming of the Lord and the resurrection, and not prior to that and without the resurrection !) he would be “absent from the body”. Again, from other scriptures we can understand what is meant with that => namely, that the resurrected believers will NOT again be in a pysical, earthly body, but will have a spiritual body which will enable them to live in the heavenly realm, where the Lord is present.
Thus, both are wrong: (a) those who teach that believers who have died are present with the Lord prior to the resurrection, and (b) those who teach that the Lord’s presence will be a physical presence on earth for which the believers again will be “present in the body”
Cheers,
Wolfgang