Marc’s Concluding Statement (7b)
October 2nd, 2010 by Marc Taylor
This is the fourteenth and final post in a moderated debate between Biblical Unitarian Danny Dixon and Trinitarian Marc Taylor. A complete list of posts can be accessed here.
If Danny isn’t convinced that Christ is referred to as “Master” in Jude 1:4 (despite virtually all the lexicons/dictionaries that disagree with him) I would direct him to 2 Peter 2:1 where despotes is also applied to the Lord Jesus. The Christian has “only” one Master (Jude 1:4) in heaven and as with God (Act 4:24) it applies “without qualification” to the Lord Jesus. Danny doesn’t believe that only really means only but it could mean another (others?). His attempt at defining (really redefining words) is necessary in order to deny the obvious – that Christ is God.
Danny affirms that Christ is “all-powerful” and “all-knowing”…but not really. This is because only the Father is omnipotent and omniscient in the absolute sense. Danny never informed us of any words where all-powerful and all-knowing don’t really mean “all”. Are there any words where a Being can be all-powerful and all-knowing but not really? There are none. Danny’s disastrous attempt at defining words one way and then redefining them and asserting a kind of “well, not really” is like a man attempting to ride two horses at the same time going in opposite directions. The outcome of both speak for themselves.
Since his appeal to Nebuchadnezzar failed Danny is left with having two Lords of lords despite the fact that the text reads “Lord of lords”.
On Job 9:8, Danny provided no other passage/s in the Old Testament where the Hebrew word for alone could encompass others. It is not defined nor used as such despite Danny’s hope that it is.
Concerning Genesis 48:15, 16, Danny never addressed the fact that since Jacob already entered in God’s presence it cancelled out any idea/need for the Messenger of YHWH to act as an agent/substitute.
I want to thank Danny for this debate. I am sure he was very busy with teaching and other things. May God incline all of our hearts unto Himself (1 Kings 8:58).
Marc,
I want to thank both you and Danny for having a very civilized debate with no personal attacks on each others characters or motives. It is very nice to see Christians behaving like Christ taught us to behave.
May the peace and wisdom of God be with both of you and with all of us…
1. Is there anyone else who can explain who their “only Master” in heaven is?
2. Can someone please supply the words that describe an omnisicent and/or omnipotent Being but that Being isn’t really omniscient/omnipotent?
3. Who is the singular Lord of all lords (plural) in heaven?
4. How does Agency apply to Genesis 48:16 when Jacob already entered into God’s presence?
Marc
All those questions have already intelligently answered by many here.
It is you that hasnt understood the answers.
Sean
I should take my blame in what Marc did because I baited him into attacking me.
sorry
Robert,
Thanks for your “answer”. Anyone else?
1 Peter 2:25 (KJV) reads, For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
This then is another passage demonstrating Christ’s omniscience thereby proving He is God.
TDNT: The LXX uses episkopos in the same twofold way as secular Greek. On the one hand it denotes God, and on the other it has the general sense of supervisors in different fields. If in polytheistic belief each deity acts as episkopos over certain men and things, the one God does this far more comprehensively. He is the absolute episkopos who sees all things.
Thus at Job 20:29 the LXX renders the Hb. El by episkopos. As such God is Judge of the ungodly. The term is here is brought into relation to kurios. Philo has the same line of thought. He calls God ephoros kai episkopos in Mut. Nom., 39, 216. The combination of martus kai episkopos, already used by Homer, is also found in Philo at Leg. All., 3, 43. In this capacity God is the One from whom no wickedness can be hidden. ho twn holwn episkopos is the Omniscient, Som., 1, 91. Thus on Philo’s view Moses finely introduces God in the first chapter of the Bible as “the Father of all and the Contemplator of all that has come into being,” This judgment rests on the statement that “God saw everything tha he had made, and, behold, it was very good,” Migr. Abr., 135. In Jewish thought this profound understanding of God as the One who sees all things produced the term panepiskopos, which occurs more than once in the Sibyllines: 1, 152; 2, 177; 5, 352.
In particular, God sees into the human heart. In this respect the LXX links martus and episkopos at Wis. 1:6 Cf. Ac. 1:24, where God is called kardiognwstes. God sees what is concealed in the soul of man, says Philo Migr. Abr., 115. God alone perceives the enthumemata of man, Migr. Abr., 81 (2:614, episkopos – Beyer).
Later on page 615:
Christ is He who has the fullest knowledge of souls. He knows every inner secret, as is said of God in Wis. 1:6 and the passages quoted from Philo (-> 614). He is also the One who gives Himself most self-sacrificingly to care for the souls of the faithful (cf. episkopew in Hb. 12:15). It is for this reason that poimen and episkopos are so closely related. The phrase “shepherd and bishop of your souls” carries within it all that is said by Greek speaking Gentiles and Jews about God as episkopos. As suggested by the context, which points us to the deepest mysteries about salvation history, episkopos is thus a title of majesty ascribed to Jesus is His work in relation to the community.
– More on the omnipotence and omniscience of the Lord Jesus.
Revelation 5:6 reads:
And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth.
Having seven horns means that Christ is omnipotent and having seven eyes means that He is omniscient.
a. EDNT: In Revelation hepta plays an important role as an expression for the totality and fulness of God and his eschatological acts (2:47, hepta – H. Balz).
b. Mounce: Where symbolism is implied (e.g., the numerous uses of hepta in Revelation), the number apparently serves as a symbol for fulness or completion (Mounce’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, Seven, page 638).
c. TDNT: But the Lamb overcame death (5:5-6) and is omnipotent (-> keras) and omniscient (5:6) (1:341, arnion – J. Jeremias).
d. TDNT: On the seven horns (5:6) as a symbol of full power, -> keras, and on the seven eyes cf. Zech. 4:10 (the “seven eyes” of God) (2:633, hepta – Rengstorf).
e. TDNT: In accordance with the symbolical meaning of the number seven (-> hepta) and of the figure of the horn, the seven horns of the Lamb express the divine plenitude of power (3:670, keras – Foerster).
f. TDNT: This is even more true of Rev. 5:6, where it is said of the arnion that it had “seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.” This is a plain allusion to Zech. 4:10 (3:9) (4:272, lithos – J. Jeremias).
g. Vine: it generally expresses completeness, and is used most frequently in the Apocalypse (Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, Seven, page 1025).