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Celebrating the Coming Christ

  
“But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you one will go forth for Me [YHWH] to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, from the days of old.
Therefore he will give them up until the time,
when she who is in labor has borne a child.
Then the remainder of his brethren will return to the sons of Israel.
And he will arise and shepherd his flock in the strength of YHWH, in the majesty of the name of YHWH his God.
And they will remain, because at that time he will be great to the ends of the earth. And this one will be our peace.”
Micah 5:2-5a.

This passage of Scripture is a wonderful example of prophecy of the Messiah, representing both his first coming and his second coming ~ a delightful choice for this month of December, to meditate and study today!

Messiah’s Birthplace
Matthew quotes Micah 5:2 in Matthew 2:6, as the primary answer that the Jewish chief priests and scribes gave to King Herod, when he inquired of them the birthplace of the prophesied Christ. Matthew makes the point, as if in a court of law, showing evidence that Jesus is the Christ, by his fulfilling this prophecy.  Matthew states in Matthew 2:1, “Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea.”

Sent by YHWH
If you spend any time at all studying the Old Testament Scriptures, you will detect the importance of whether a prophet, angel or messenger was sent by YHWH. To be sent from the Most High God to deliver a word or message from Him to the people, was as if God Himself was standing before them speaking the words. Scholars call this principle ‘agency’ and it simply means that this prophet, sent by God, stood in God’s place to the people, with all authority and exact words of God, as if he were God Himself standing there speaking the message. So, to pretend you were sent by God, and be a false prophet or false deliverer of a word that was not from God, was a very serious felony! Here’s a great example of this ‘sent by God’ found in John 1:6:
“There came a man sent from God, whose name was John.”
So, too, will the Messiah be sent from God.

Ruler in Israel
This Christ will be a Ruler in Israel. This is very literal, and is yet to come. Revelation 2:27 speaks of this beautifully, connecting the prophecy of the Old with the words of Jesus in his revelation to John:

“And he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the Potter are broken to pieces, as I also have received authority from My Father.”

This prophesied Christ will rule the earth, and receives this rulership, dominion and authority from YHWH, from Whom he was sent, depicted here in Daniel 7:13-14:

“One like a son of man was coming and he came up to the Ancient of Days [YHWH] and was presented before Him. And to him [Messiah] was given dominion, glory and a kingdom, that all the peoples, nations and men of every language might serve him. His dominion [rule] is an everlasting dominion which will not pass away.”

Ephesians 1:20-23 speaks of this rule, authority and power given to Christ from God, to whom Christ is in submission to, even to the very end (I Corinthians 15:28).


Promised Long Ago

“His goings forth are from long ago, from the days of old.”
God’s word goes forth from Him, not as the verbal words we speak, which are merely spoken words; but God’s word goes forth from Him as the power and energy that is active and alive, that causes God’s spoken word to be accomplished and fulfilled. That is how He spoke the world into being. He spoke it and it happened. This is why it is so common and understood to the Hebrews, when the Scripture will state that the word came or went forth; it was the spoken, active, living power of God (i.e. “The word of the LORD which came to Hosea”).

God is in the business of being faithful to His spoken word, to see it fulfilled.

  • “Behold, the former things have come to pass, Now I declare new things; Before they spring forth, I proclaim them to you.” Isaiah 42:9
  • “I am God, and there is no one like Me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times, things which have not been done, saying, “My purpose will be established and I will accomplish all My good pleasure.” Isaiah 46:10.
  • “Truly I have spoken; truly I will bring it to pass. I have planned it, surely I will do it.” Isaiah 46:11.
  • “I declared the former things long ago and they went forth from My mouth and I proclaimed them. Suddenly I acted and they came to pass.” Isaiah 48:3.
  • “So shall My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me empty, without accomplishing what I desire, and without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.” Isaiah 55:11.

The word or promised plan spoken by God, long ago, centers around granting eternal life to His chosen people.

  • “…in the hope of eternal life, which God who cannot lie, promised long ages ago, but at the proper time manifested even His word, in the proclamation with which I was entrusted according to the commandment of God our Savior.” Titus 1:2-3.

The spoken word of God does not have to occur immediately at the time He spoke it.  It can takes years to visually see this word become fulfilled.  But in Hebrew thought, because they believe God will do what He has spoken, they view it as a done deal.   (i.e. “Everyone living on earth will worship it, everyone whose name is not written in the Book of Life. That book belongs to the lamb who was slaughtered before the creation of the world. Revelation 13:8)God’s word of the Messiah and what the Messiah would accomplish was spoken long ago, before the Messiah actually performed that word about himself.
“For he [Christ] was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared [phaneroo – been made known to us] in these last times for the sake of you.” I Peter 1:20.

God foreknew not only His plan for Christ, but we too, were foreknown (I Peter 1:2). We did not pre-exist our birth, and neither did Christ. This merely means that God knew what He would do and how He would do it, with whom and for whom. He knows the end at the beginning!

This spoken promise or plan of God for us, spoken in ancient times, before anyone of us was there to hear it, was brought to reality, in the birth of Jesus. God’s plan became flesh and blood, when He beget and conceived a baby boy, supernaturally, in the womb of Mary, using the power of His Spirit to do so. (Luke 1:31, 35; John 1:14). From that day forward, Jesus became the living word of God. He actually lived, fulfilled, accomplished and even spoke the word that God had purposed the Messiah would do and speak from all eternity.  At the right moment in history, God revealed His plan for mankind through the appearing of the Messiah (2 Timothy 1:9-10), who through his obedience to God’s plan, brought us life and immortality through the word of the Kingdom.  Titus says the same thing in 1:2-3, “in the hope of eternal life, which God cannot lie, promised before times eternal, but at the proper time manifested His word in the proclamation with which I [Paul] was entrusted with to the commandment of God our Savior.”  As someone once explained, “Christ is the embodiment of the predetermined plan of salvation.”

So, the “goings forth” of the Messiah, was all the prophetic word that God had ever planned for him, that he would do; both what he has done so far (preached the Kingdom and eternal life; being slain as the worthy Lamb of God; raised from the dead; exalted to the right hand of God, etc.), historically to date, and the prophetic word which he has yet to accomplish.

This word that is going forth from YHWH is not only being performed through this man, Jesus, but also working and being accomplished through us who believe in this eternal life message [word] through faith in Jesus!

  • “For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received from us the word of God’s message, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God which also performs its work in you who believe.” I Thessalonians 2:13.

His Brethren

Micah 5:3 speaks of “the brethren” of this Messiah.  Of course, this makes us immediately think of the text in Deuteronomy 18:15-19, where Moses prophesies about the Messiah:

“The LORD Your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers, you shall listen to him.” 

Will return to the sons of Israel

Zephaniah 3:19-20, one of the many passages which speaks of a time, here on the earth, when God will gather His people who have been scattered across the globe, and bring them back to the land in Israel.  This will be at the time of the Messiah’s rule from Jerusalem, on the throne of David.

“Yes, at that time, I will deal with all who afflict you.  I will save the lame and gather the scattered; I will make those who were disgraced throughout the earth receive praise and fame.  At that time, I will bring you back, yes, at that time I will gather you.  I will give you fame and praise among all the peoples of the earth, when I restore your fortunes before your eyes.  Yahweh has spoken.“  (HCSB Bible).

The Name of YHWH his God
For those who use Micah 5:2 as a proof text that Jesus came in flesh as the eternal second person of the godhead, in their Trinitarian view of Scripture, stating that Jesus pre-existed his birth as “fully God,” they only need to read a few sentences further to see that this is not so.

These Scriptures state consistently and line up perfectly with the other prophetic word throughout the Bible, that this Messiah will rule in Israel, shepherding the remnant of his flock, which will return to the promised land. It will be a time of great peace for his people, and he will be ruling and reigning in the strength and majesty of His God. It doesn’t say that the Messiah IS God, but states clearly that he is ruling in the majesty of HIS God. Obviously, there are two people here in this passage – 1) the prophesied ruling Messiah and 2) His God, YHWH. Both are not The Most High God, Yahweh.  Only one.  To state otherwise, is to do serious damage to the meaning of the text and the whole plan of God weaved intricately and beautifully through Scripture!

God is Faithful
God will bring about His word. His plan will be accomplished and fulfilled. We are to be alert, waiting and watching for signs of Jesus’ second coming, at which time we can see the following word lived out, in the flesh and blood of our King Jesus:

“For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on his shoulders; and his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty Hero, Everlasting Ruler, Prince of Peace. There will be no end to the increase of his government or of peace, on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness, from then on and forevermore. the zeal of the LORD of Hosts will accomplish this.” Isaiah 9:6-7.

This December, let us celebrate his miraculous birth and look forward to his return, in which we will inherit our eternal life in this kingdom to come; our inheritance which will be imperishable and everlasting.  God’s word is to be trusted and it will be fulfilled, because our God, Yahweh, is faithful.  As the prophet Zephaniah so eloquently wrote it in Zephaniah 3:20 ~

“Yahweh has spoken.”

29 Responses to “Celebrating the Coming Christ”

  1. on 10 Dec 2010 at 7:00 pmPatricia Byrne

    Another great article! Thanks Angela, your ability to communicate is a gift from God. I savor all your articles.

  2. on 21 Dec 2010 at 10:46 amAngela

    Thank you, Patricia. 🙂 I obviously am no Bible scholar, so usually my blogs are just my private Bible study questions, that I have struggled with and have been in pursuit of truth, written out in a public forum. I am definitely a work-in-progress, still learning and seeking to know God more ~ a journey, that I hope, never grows tiresome or dull. The more I study, the more incredible I find God and His God-breathed Scriptures, which are being fulfilled & accomplished through His Christ and His people. Very cool indeed! Happy studying! 🙂

  3. on 21 Dec 2010 at 10:51 amXavier

    Christ-mass: Christianity’s “other” Self-Inflicted Wound…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=schjf94NC0c

  4. on 21 Dec 2010 at 10:25 pmMark C.

    In the thread on “Is Christmas Pagan” Jaco made the following request:

    It is clear that there are serious differences between Christmas celebrators and non-celebrators among us. Seeing that this is such a hot topic, even a crucible, could we please go this year without Christmas articles on KR?

    Phil. 1:10, 1 Cor. 10:29, 32.

    Xavier,

    It seems like you’re determined to get a fight going. There is abundant clear evidence that the Trinity is false. On the other hand, there is no Scripture that either commands or forbids the celebration of Christmas.

    The video is shamefully one-sided; not all Christians who celebrate the birth of Jesus at Christmas are celebrating the incarnation of God the Son. It is very misleading to lump the two things together.

    We went round and round in circles last year over this, to no avail, and agreed to disagree. PLEASE don’t drag us down this path again.

    (All the arguments for and against were expressed repeatedly in those two threads, and anyone wanting to read them can see them here and here.)

    For the record, the verses Jaco referenced read as follows:

    Phil. 1:10 so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ;

    I Cor. 10:
    29 I mean not your own conscience, but the other man’s; for why is my freedom judged by another’s conscience?
    30 If I partake with thankfulness, why am I slandered concerning that for which I give thanks?
    31 Whether, then, you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
    32 Give no offense either to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God;

  5. on 22 Dec 2010 at 9:43 amAngela

    A discussion of the Scripture, Micah 5:2-5 would be appropriate here…

  6. on 22 Dec 2010 at 9:58 amXavier

    Mark C

    It seems like you’re determined to get a fight going.

    I am simply responding to a Christmas article you guys put up. I didn’t “start this fight”. Furthermore, why do you see it as a “fight”? Aren’t people allowed to disagree with Christmas articles you post on here ever year or what?

    There is abundant clear evidence that the Trinity is false.

    There is abundant clear evidence that what it “represents” is also “clearly wrong”!

    The video is shamefully one-sided.

    We all agree “Christ-mass” is a pagan creation celebrating pagan holidays of Ancient Roman rites. And I am sure we all here agree on what it represents, the Orthodox “Incarnation” belief, how “God became a human being”. How is this “one-sided”?

    As a fellow pastor said to me, I am of the opinion that if the bible is silent in a particular area, I guess we as Christians should be also. So if the bible says nothing about observing our lord’s birth, perhaps we shouldn’t either. I don’t want to be dogmatic, but if someone would like to observe it, they should “at least” try do it as the preferred time of the year – not what the rest of the world is doing. And make clear what we’re celebrating, the biblical account of how God “raised up” [Acts 13.33], created, His “one of a kind, unique” Son [Mat 1.18-20; Luke 1.30-35]!

    I believe we as Christians of the sound doctrine of our lord Jesus Christ should not partake of this ‘silly season’ not only because it may [or may not] be the actual date of the Son of God’s birth, I personally do not mind people putting aside a day to observe either his birth, baptism or death [Easter], but as we know, the problem lies in the fact of what these holidays represent and/or have attached to themselves.

    It is sad that some of us like minded Christians just ignore this plain fact and still partake from this season. Most, if not all, with the excuse of ‘well, in my heart I know who and what I am celebrating/worshiping’. But to me that is a very weak and poor excuse. If that is the case, if in our hearts we are really observing something else, then what can prevent us from going to any other ‘Christian’ denomination or event with that same attitude? Sitting in on a Catholic or even Mormon service all because in our hearts we know who and what we are worshiping? Why battle what we consider to be outright wrong doctrinal issues most of the year yet, forsake it all 1 day out of the year?! Why even partake of it at all if our hearts are really not in it?!

    Food for thought methinks!

    Lastly, I do not know what the scriptures you quote from Jaco have anything to do with the simple fact that I am expressing a different point of view. With the goal to allow others to see “the other side of the coin”.

    I do not believe I have done anything wrong by responding to a Christmas article you guys have posted. If I am going to be muzzled, criticized or even blocked for this, so be it! Truth has nothing to fear, so I do not know what is your great fear!

    The Purposes of the Blog

    The blog is a great place to propose a new idea and put it to the test. This is especially helpful because if there is a hole in one’s idea someone is likely to point it out so that we can all move closer to the truth on a given matter.

  7. on 22 Dec 2010 at 11:15 amMark C.

    We all agree “Christ-mass” is a pagan creation celebrating pagan holidays of Ancient Roman rites. And I am sure we all here agree on what it represents, the Orthodox “Incarnation” belief, how “God became a human being”. How is this “one-sided”?

    No, we don’t all agree. That’s why we agreed to disagree last year.  And as I said, not all Christians who celebrate the birth of Jesus at Christmas are celebrating the incarnation of God the Son. It is very misleading to lump the two things together. (Already I’m having to repeat myself!)

    Why battle what we consider to be outright wrong doctrinal issues most of the year yet, forsake it all 1 day out of the year?! Why even partake of it at all if our hearts are really not in it?!

    Because whether or not to observe Christmas is not an “outright wrong doctrinal issue.”  Besides, even in debates with Trinitarians, if we end up going in circles and repeating ourselves because neither side sees what the other sees, then we agree to disagree and let it go.

    Lastly, I do not know what the scriptures you quote from Jaco have anything to do with the simple fact that I am expressing a different point of view. With the goal to allow others to see “the other side of the coin”.

    The fact that you don’t see that is a bit disturbing. Those verses, along with the ones about every man being persuaded in his own heart and not judging each other, are at the heart of this matter.

    For the last time, there are some things that are unquestionably wrong as outlined in the Bible. But there are some things which are neither commanded nor forbidden, and we are expressly told that they are matters of personal choice, and not to be judged by us or anyone else.

    And as I said, the “other side of the coin” was adequately represented in the threads from last year, for anyone that wants to read them.

    Truth has nothing to fear, so I do not know what is your great fear!

    It’s not a matter of fear.  It’s a matter of recognizing that some things are questions of personal choice and not absolute right or wrong.  That is the Truth.

    How To Disagree Respectfully and Fruitfully

    Here are some positive statements about how we can argue constructively. Whereas the previous list speaks to what we should not do, this list gives guidance as to what we should do.

    6. If, after open, honest debate, two parties still do not agree on an issue, and each side is convinced that the other “just can’t see it,” then the Christian thing to do is to “agree to disagree” and not continue wrangling and arguing about it. We will never agree on everything, so this will likely be how many debates will conclude.

    7. What we should avoid is taking the attitude of “I must proclaim The Truth, and continue to proclaim it whether they want to hear it or not.” If parties agree to disagree on a matter, they should let it go, and not keep bringing it up, especially in other threads that have nothing to do with the matter on which they disagree. If a poster continually proclaims his views with no intention of debating, it is seen as baiting an argument, which detracts from the thread, and it engenders strife as well.

    As Angela suggested, a discussion of the Scripture, Micah 5:2-5 would be appropriate here…

  8. on 22 Dec 2010 at 12:00 pmXavier

    Mark C

    No, we don’t all agree. That’s why we agreed to disagree last year.

    Fair enough. You and I might not but history and the NT evidence tells a different story.

    …whether or not to observe Christmas is not an “outright wrong doctrinal issue.”

    It is not a “whether or not” scenario and you know it. That is, if we’re like-minded in our views of One God, the Father.

    Those verses, along with the ones about every man being persuaded in his own heart and not judging each other, are at the heart of this matter…we are expressly told that they are matters of personal choice, and not to be judged by us or anyone else.

    It does not take away from the simple fact that it is a wrong practice. Like I said, especially if we agree on those doctrinal issues regarding One God.

    It’s a matter of recognizing that some things are questions of personal choice and not absolute right or wrong.

    Agreed. Just wanted to make it clear that there is nothing for me to be ashamed about [as you previously suggested] in regards to the video. The subjects expressed therein are clearly self-evident.

  9. on 22 Dec 2010 at 12:06 pmMark C.

    Xavier, for the love of God, LET IT GO!

  10. on 22 Dec 2010 at 12:12 pmXavier

    Mark C

    Its His love for the truth that prevents me from doing so. Hard for you to understand, hope others do.

    Thank you for continuing to let me post though.

  11. on 22 Dec 2010 at 12:53 pmMark C.

    To avoid further derailing this thread, I will respond in the Is Christmas Pagan, Pt. 2 thread.

  12. on 22 Dec 2010 at 4:16 pmXavier

    Angela

    For those who use Micah 5:2 as a proof text that Jesus came in flesh as the eternal second person of the godhead, in their Trinitarian view of Scripture, stating that Jesus pre-existed his birth as “fully God,” they only need to read a few sentences further to see that this is not so.

    Isn’t this a bit ironic if you continue to celebrate, and in essence identify yourself, with a holiday that clearly represents exactly what you seem to be refuting here?

  13. on 22 Dec 2010 at 5:01 pmMark C.

    Xavier,

    Did you not read the excerpt from How To Disagree Respectfully and Fruitfully that I put in my last comment?

    Consider this an official warning. If you continue to argue about it and trying to derail this thread, it will be deleted.

  14. on 22 Dec 2010 at 5:24 pmXavier

    Mark C.

    Consider this an official warning. If you continue to argue about it and trying to derail this thread, it will be deleted.

    So let me get this straight, you writer under the pseudonym of “Angela” as well?

  15. on 22 Dec 2010 at 5:33 pmJoseph

    Mark C.,

    I think you are being a too defensive moderator. Xavier is simply just stating what he beliefs is the correct understanding. It is that time of year, right? If I was new reader in this blog I would be put off by your ‘control freak’ mentality on the dialog. It’s a fact of the internet that not all threads stay on topic as they should. If you think you can have a perfect forum, you will quickly see there will be no members to share it with.

  16. on 22 Dec 2010 at 5:45 pmXavier

    Joseph

    If you think you can have a perfect forum, you will quickly see there will be no members to share it with.

    Thank you for your support [I think!] 🙂

    But to be fair to Mark and the other moderators here, and to recognize the hard work they put in in trying to keep a gauge on things, sometimes posts do stray into the absurd and the aforementioned insipid/nasty.

    I think, THUS FAR, Mark was handling well. It is obvious this Christmas thing is close to his heart [and that of many others I am sure]. But I am not here to make enemies or break fellowships because of my staunch criticisms. Like you said, I am simply stating what I believe is correct but most importantly, highlighting the nuisances and degrees of separation between Christmas and what most of us on here regard as “the sound doctrine” of the Christian faith we all so zealously uphold!

  17. on 22 Dec 2010 at 6:09 pmMark C.

    Joseph,

    I think you are being a too defensive moderator. Xavier is simply just stating what he beliefs is the correct understanding. It is that time of year, right? 

    He has stated it repeatedly, over and over again, and we have agreed to disagree.  According to the Communication Policy of this blog, it is inappropriate to continue arguing about it. 
    Xavier,

    So let me get this straight, you writer under the pseudonym of “Angela” as well?

    Where in the world would you get that from? Angela wrote a fine article dealing with Scripture. I don’t want to see her work minimized by continuing this ridiculous argument.

  18. on 22 Dec 2010 at 6:16 pmXavier

    Mark C.

    I don’t want to see her work minimized by continuing this ridiculous argument.

    Please show me how I have, in anyway, minimized the opposition we all hold regarding the “Trinitarian view of Scripture, stating that Jesus pre-existed his birth as “fully God,”?!!

    I simply pointed to the apparent irony [contradiction] of trying to hold both opposing views!

    Anyways…my comment was directed to Angela Mark. Would you mind letting her answer?! I am sure she is more than capable on her own.

  19. on 22 Dec 2010 at 6:46 pmMark C.

    Xavier,

    I didn’t say you were minimizing opposition to the Trinity. I said continuing this endless argument is detracting from the points about Scripture she was making. It is only “apparent irony [contradiction]” in light of your false assessment that everyone who observes the birth of Christ is also supporting the Trinity and the Incarnation of God. I have pointed out repeatedly that this is not the case, but you continue to ignore that and throw out those same accusations. This is inappropriate and unchristian and I don’t understand how you can’t see that.

    BTW, it is not Christmas itself that is close to my heart, but rebutting these false and hurtful accusations and judgments.

    As for letting Angela speak for herself, I’m not stopping her. I just wanted to address your repeated disregard for the Communication Policy.

  20. on 22 Dec 2010 at 6:54 pmXavier

    Mark C

    It is only “apparent irony [contradiction]” in light of your false assessment that everyone who observes the birth of Christ is also supporting the Trinity and the Incarnation of God.

    Your free to disagree with me on that observation just as I am of making it. For the time being let others decide whose position is right or wrong. In the long run, we know God will have His say.

    BTW, it is not Christmas itself that is close to my heart, but rebutting these false and hurtful accusations and judgments.

    I thought it was your pro-Christmas “celebration” stance that was coloring your argumentation. If not, what is the heinous problem to the disagreements I have regarding this “silly season”?

  21. on 22 Dec 2010 at 7:09 pmMark C.

    I thought it was your pro-Christmas “celebration” stance that was coloring your argumentation. If not, what is the heinous problem to the disagreements I have regarding this “silly season”?

    I just answered that, and have answered it over and over again. If it’s just a “silly season” and you think it’s wrong, then don’t observe it. But for you to continue to accuse everyone who chooses to honor God and His Son at this time of year of participating in pagan rituals and supporting the Trinity is indefensible. I can’t believe I have to say that again, as many times as I’ve said it.

    That just further illustrates the futility of this argument – you haven’t even been listening to what I’ve been saying!  I’m done. I need to take a break from what this blog has become.

    Have a merry whatever….

  22. on 22 Dec 2010 at 7:23 pmXavier

    Mark C.

    But for you to continue to accuse everyone who chooses to honor God and His Son at this time of year of participating in pagan rituals and supporting the Trinity is indefensible.

    Again, its your word and personal views against the clear historical [theological] facts.

  23. on 22 Dec 2010 at 7:34 pmDoubting Thomas

    Xavier,
    You said, “Again, its your word and personal views against the clear historical [theological] facts.”

    I would think that as a trained historian you would know that all historians can do, in the end, is state their opinion. This opinion is determined by which sources they consider to be more accurate and which sources they don’t. For example; historians are split on whether Alexander the Great was poisoned or whether he died of natural causes. All these historians are studying the same sources, but they have different opinions about which sources are the most accurate, and which are not.

    Was picking Dec. 25th. a compromise to pagan tradition, or was it picked to give people an alternative to the pagan tradition??? The fact is you don’t know and this is far from being a fact, as you stated above. It is only your opinion. You are of course entitled to your opinion, just like Mark, Angela, and myself are entitled to ours…

  24. on 22 Dec 2010 at 8:09 pmXavier

    DT

    Was picking Dec. 25th. a compromise to pagan tradition, or was it picked to give people an alternative to the pagan tradition??? The fact is you don’t know and this is far from being a fact, as you stated above.

    There are many things we do not know, and may never know, but this one has been carefully preserved and cataloged throughout the ages.

    I would suggest you source any standard history book or dictionary/encyclopedia or even some of the fine articles on this site. See if you come up with a different point of view that is sure to be in the minority.

    The fact remains that modern-day Christianity is all about the orthodox belief regarding the Incarnation: how God became a human being. This is a fact and not just an opinion! As this recent article on the populist Christian Today website shows:

    But what is the essential message of Christmas? It is that Immanuel has come…To be called, according to Hebraic understanding, means that the person spoken of will in reality be what he is called and actually fulfill that title. Thus the name Immanuel points to the nature of the One who bears the name. He is God incarnate – God coming into human flesh

    What a comfort, what a joy to know He will never leave His own. He knows the frailty of our humanity, the weakness, the pain and the shame of being human because He became one with us.

    Reflect today on how God is with you, and let the wonderful word Immanuel come alive in your spirit as you contemplate the true meaning of Christmas. Immanuel – God with us

  25. on 22 Dec 2010 at 8:42 pmDoubting Thomas

    Xavier,
    From the history books, I have read, they seemed to say that the two biggest pagan festivals, winter solstice and spring festival, were picked as the days to celebrate the birth and death of Yeshua to give people an alternative to these pagan festivals. The reasoning was that these new holidays would eventually replace (eliminate) the pagan festivals.

    All indications are that it worked. Except for a handful of Wiccans, there is no-one today that celebrates the winter solstice or the arrival of spring in any sort of ritualistic way (as the pagans did). Most Christians are actually completely ignorant of these ancient pagan traditions.

    There are many Christians that claim that the early Christians (from the 1st. or 2nd. century), actually celebrated these religious holidays, on those dates, from the very beginning…

  26. on 22 Dec 2010 at 8:56 pmXavier

    DT

    All indications are that it worked.

    Is that a good or bad thing?

    Anyway the point I was making with our video, which Mark C has chosen to label as repetitive and of no circumstance, is that at its heart Christmas is about the orthodox belief of the Incarnation: how God became a human being. And not how most of us in this forum understand it to be, that is, as the Gospel tradition has preserved it: how God miraculously created a human being in the womb of a young virgin [Mat 1.18-20; Luke 1.30-35].

    Some may ask, so what? Well, if we know and agree with this, how can anyone go on partaking of these celebrations and worst of all teaching it to their kids simply out of some inbred, tradition? Aren’t we supposed to be in the process of sanctification via a knowledge of the truth? How can we come to God with anything but a clear conscious?

    The purpose of my instruction is that all believers would be filled with love that comes from a pure heart, a clear conscience, and genuine faith. So let’s strife to maintain a clear conscience before God and all people. Acts 24.16; 1Tim 1.5; cp. Heb 13.18

  27. on 22 Dec 2010 at 9:36 pmDoubting Thomas

    Xavier,
    You asked, “Well, if we know and agree with this, how can anyone go on partaking of these celebrations and worst of all teaching it to their kids simply out of some inbred, tradition?”

    Yeshua said in Matthew 12:33, [ A Tree Is Known by Its Fruit ] “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad, for the tree is known by its fruit.”

    If Christmas is such an evil pagan tradition, then ‘Why is this not reflected in it’s fruit’??? When I look at Christmas I see an increase in love, charity, peace, kindness, joy, and family unity, etc… Of course Christmas is not perfect, it has it’s ugly, commercial, selfish, worldly side, which has nothing to do with the birth of Yeshua as well…

  28. on 22 Dec 2010 at 10:17 pmXavier

    DT

    If Christmas is such an evil pagan tradition, then ‘Why is this not reflected in it’s fruit’???

    If at the Last Day this will be held up as the “gold standard” for our personal salvation, then truly “all you need is love/good works”. I do not think that is quite what scripture is talking about DT.

    The one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 2Thess 2.9-10

    any will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ Mat 7.22-23

  29. on 22 Dec 2010 at 10:37 pmDoubting Thomas

    Xavier,
    I think maybe we should just agree to disagree. BTW – I actually believe that Yeshua was probably born in April. If you’d like to read my beliefs on this, it is on the “Is Christmas Pagan? Part 2” written by Mark C. on the 21st. Dec 2009 (comment #11). I will try to paste the link below. I’m not very good with this technology stuff…. 🙂

    http://kingdomready.org/blog/2009/12/21/is-christmas-pagan-part-2/#comment-78008

  

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