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One item that the New Testament brings up, many times, is that knowledge about God and Jesus is necessary for salvation. In other words, in order for people to be granted eternal life, they need to understand about God and His Son. Here are some examples of this:

John 17:1-3 (ESV):

1When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, 2since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

John 20:30-31 (ESV):

30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

2 Timothy 3:14-15 (ESV):

14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it 15and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

2 Peter 1:2-4 (NIV):

2 Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

3 His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

1 John 5:10-13 (ESV):

10Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. 11And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

In addition, the apostle Paul tells us that people cannot obtain knowledge about God and Jesus, unless they hear about God from other people. (In other words, we are not able to just “figure out” that knowledge on our own).

Romans 10:13-15 (ESV):

13For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” 14How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!”


So, from all of the above information, the following three points appear to be true:

– In order for a person to be saved, he needs to believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

– In order for a person to start believing in Jesus, he needs to understand about God and Jesus.

– In order for a person to understand about God and Jesus, he need to hear about them from someone else.

Of course, those three points lead to another important question.


Has everyone heard about God and Jesus?

During the 2,000 years since Jesus walked the earth, there have been (literally) millions upon millions of people who have lived and died, without ever hearing about God and Jesus. In other words, those people never heard about Yahweh or His Son – not even one time.

Of course, from the points above, it is necessary for people to hear about God and Jesus, in order for them to have any hope of being saved. Basically, people need to hear about Jesus in order to understand about him; and they need to understand about Jesus in order to believe in him – and, of course, they need to believe in Jesus in order to be saved.

So, if a person has never heard about Jesus, then that means that that person never had the opportunity to be saved.

Also note the following: some people are mentally incapable of understanding about God and Jesus – even if someone gives them that information. Consider this scenario: a newborn baby dies, five minutes after he is born. Even if people tell the baby about God and Jesus during that five minutes, the baby is not going to understand that information. As a result, the baby will not have any opportunity to believe in Jesus – and be saved. (This same scenario also applies to people who have very severe mental disabilities.)

This information, in turn, brings up an additional question.


Does God want everyone to be saved?

Scripture is pretty clear that God wants everyone to be saved. In other words, God does not want anyone to be condemned to everlasting death. Consider these verses:

1 Timothy 2:4 (ESV):

3This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9 (ESV):

9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

From the above verses, it certainly appears that God wants every person, who has ever lived, to be granted everlasting life.

However, some churches disagree – some churches state that that God does not actually want every single person to be saved. Instead, those churches claim that God only wants people who currently believe in Jesus to be saved.

So, is that belief true? Consider this verse:

1 Timothy 4:10 (ESV):

10For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

From what I can see, that verse tells us that God will offer salvation to every single person – especially (but NOT only) to those people who currently believe in Jesus.


An apparent dilemma

So, here is a summary of the information so far:

– God wants every single person to be saved – i.e., He wants everyone to be granted eternal life.

– In order for a person to be saved, he needs to hear about God and Jesus from someone else.

– Millions of people never heard about God and Jesus – not even once – during their entire lifetimes.

As a result, there is an apparent dilemma: God wants everyone to be saved – but an enormous number of people never had any opportunity to be saved!

So, the question now is: what is going to happen to people who are “ignorant” of Jesus, when Jesus returns? This question is especially relevant to people who were unable to understand about Jesus – such as infants who have died.


Two different doctrines

From what I have seen, most Christian churches never even address this question of “ignorant” people. In other words, most churches do not have any official belief at all, about the ultimate fate of people who have died, without ever hearing about Jesus.

However, there are some churches that try to at least partially address this question. In particular, those churches do have official beliefs about people who were incapable of understanding about Jesus – such as infants who have died.

The beliefs of those churches fall into two basic categories:

Doctrine 1: One doctrine states that all dead infants will be resurrected to everlasting life, immediately after Jesus returns.

Doctrine 2: Another doctrine states that all dead infants will be relegated to everlasting death, when Jesus returns.

So, let’s investigate those two doctrines.


Doctrine 1: Automatic salvation for dead infants

The first doctrine sounds very merciful, of course. That doctrine basically states that all babies who have died will “automatically” be saved. In other words, all dead infants will be given a “free pass” to everlasting life.

However, is that doctrine true? Is it really true that an infant who dies will automatically be saved? First off, consider these passages:

Psalms 51:5 (ESV):

5Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Psalms 58:3 (ESV):

3The wicked are estranged from the womb;
they go astray from birth, speaking lies.

Romans 3:10-11 (NIV):

10 As it is written:    “There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.

The above passages indicate that no one is “naturally” righteous – not even newborn babies. As a result, it certainly appears that even infants are in need of salvation from God.

Now, consider these passages:

Mark 16:15-16 (ESV):

15And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Acts 2:37-38 (ESV):

37Now when they [the Jews] heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9-10 (NIV):

9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

From the above passages (and many others), it appears that salvation requires action on our part. In other words, salvation is not something that we can obtain “by default”.

So, as a result of all of the above passages, it appears to me that the “automatic salvation for dead infants” doctrine is not correct.


Doctrine 2: Automatic destruction of dead infants

The second doctrine strikes me as being extremely cruel – it means that dead infants will be permanently destroyed, simply because they died before they developed the mental capacity to understand about Jesus.

Not only is this doctrine cruel, but it also appears to be contradicted by Scripture. For one thing, as mentioned previously, Scripture indicates that God wants everyone to be saved – not just those people who currently believe in Jesus. (See 1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9 and 1 Timothy 4:10, above.) In addition, dead infants never had any opportunity to be saved, during their brief lifetimes. As a result, it looks extremely unlikely to me that God would just “forget about” babies who have died.

Another point to note is that God has given Jesus the authorization to judge people. In other words, it is Jesus who will decide which people will be saved, and which people will be condemned. So, let’s take a look at Jesus’ view of young children:

Luke 18:15-17 (NIV):

15 People were also bringing babies to Jesus for him to place his hands on them. When the disciples saw this, they rebuked them. 16 But Jesus called the children to him and said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 17 Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”

Matthew 18:1-4 (ESV):

1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” 2And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them 3and said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

From the above passages, I find it extraordinarily unlikely that Jesus will simply “ignore” little babies who have died, when he returns. As a result, the “automatic destruction of dead infants” doctrine definitely does not appear correct to me.


A third possibility

As mentioned above, the two main doctrines about the fate of “ignorant” people do not appear correct to me. In other words, those two doctrines do not appear to be “consistent” with Scripture.

So, the question now is: are those two doctrines the only possibilities? Or could it be that there is a another doctrine, that is consistent with Scripture?

Here are some thoughts about a third possibility, for the ultimate fate of ignorant people.

Two different ages: The first point to note is that there are two basic “ages” – or “periods of time” – that are described in Scripture. Those ages are usually described as the “current time”, and the “age to come”. Here are two of the most explicit mentions of those two ages (from Jesus):

Mark 10:29-30 (ESV):

29Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and for the gospel,30who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life.

Luke 18:29-30 (ESV):

29And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God,30who will not receive many times more in this time, and in the age to come eternal life.”

The “millennium” subdivision: Another item to be aware of is that the “age to come” has a very specific “subdivision” within it. Basically, the first 1,000 years of that age will be ruled by Jesus – along with his faithful Christians. After that thousand years, Jesus will hand over the kingdom to our Heavenly Father. Here are two passages which corroborate that information:

Revelation 20:4-6 (NIV):

4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

1 Corinthians 15:24-28 (ESV):

24Then comes the end, when he [Jesus] delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

The “white throne” judgement

After the end of the millennium, Jesus will judge every person who has not already been saved. This is the so called “white throne” judgement.

Note: all of the people who will be judged at the white throne are people who were not Christians during this current age – because if they had been Christians during this age, then they would already be immortal at that point.

Here is the description of the white throne judgement:

Revelation 20:11-15 (ESV):

11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. 14Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Notice the wording in the last verse: “If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.” That wording certainly appears to indicate that some people’s names will be found in the book of life.

In other words, it appears that some people who were not Christians during this age, will end up being saved!

Of course, as noted in the introduction, it is necessary for people to believe in Jesus, in order to be saved. So, how is it possible that some people who were not Christians during this age will be able to be saved?

Two different resurrections

Scripture tells us that there will be two different types of resurrections – a resurrection of “life”, and a resurrection of “judgement”:

John 5:28-29 (ESV):

28Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Similarly, there are two different “classes” of people who will be resurrected – the “just” and the “unjust”:

Acts 24:14-15 (ESV):

14But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law and written in the Prophets, 15 having a hope in God, which these men themselves accept, that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust.

The resurrection of “life” is presumably the resurrection to immortal life. In other words, that resurrection will immediately grant people everlasting life. This resurrection is also presumably the “first” resurrection, referred to in Revelation 20:4-6, above. In other words, the saints listed in Revelation 20:6 will evidently be resurrected during the resurrection of life – and they will therefore become immortal immediately after their resurrections.

The resurrection of “judgement”, on the other hand, does not cause people to become immortal. Instead, that resurrection presumably brings people to mortal life – i.e., life similar to the life we all have now.

So, the question now is: what does the word “judgement” mean in this context? In other words, does “judgement” here basically mean “pronouncing a sentence” – like a judge in a courtroom, at the end of a trial?

If judgement does mean “pronouncing a sentence”, then how could anyone who comes to life during that resurrection be saved? Remember – all of the people who will be resurrected at that time are people who were not Christians during this age. So, if all of those people have sentences pronounced on them, immediately after they are resurrected, then how could any of them be saved?

Of course, as mentioned above, it appears that some people who were not Christians will be saved, at the “white throne” judgement. So, it appears that “judgement”, in this context, does not mean an immediate “sentencing” of people.

The Greek word that is translated as “judgement” in John 5:29 is krisis. (The English word “crisis” comes from that Greek word.) From what I understand, krisis has this basic meaning: “A dangerous, or stressful, period of time“.

As a result, it appears that people who are raised during the resurrection of judgement will be give a period of time to live – as mortals. That period of time will then give those people the opportunity to learn about God and Jesus – and for them to decide to follow Jesus.

In other words, it appears that the “resurrection of judgement” refers to a period of time – in the future – during which the actions of unsaved people will be judged.

If the above information is true, then that would explain why some people who were not Christians during this age will end up being saved – it is because those people will become Christians, in the next age!



From all of the above information, it appears to me that the following events will happen to “ignorant” people who have died (especially to infants who have died):

– At some point after Jesus returns, ignorant people will be resurrected. However, they will be resurrected with mortal bodies – not immortal bodies.

– After that, those people will be given some finite period of time, to learn about God and Jesus – and to follow Jesus as their lord.

– If those people do follow Jesus, then they will eventually be granted everlasting life. However, if they consistently refuse to follow Jesus, then they will eventually die.

So, a basic “synopsis” of this overall doctrine is as follows:

Infants who have died will have an opportunity to be saved. In fact, they will have the same opportunity to be saved as we have had. The only difference is that they will have their salvation opportunity in the next age – the “Kingdom” age – instead of in this age.

I call this overall belief the “Kingdom age salvation” doctrine.

Of course, I am the first to admit that there is no explicit mention in Scripture of this doctrine. As a result, there is no guarantee that this doctrine is correct.

However, this doctrine certainly appears to be far more likely than the other two doctrines discussed in this post – the “automatic salvation” and “automatic destruction” doctrines.

Please feel free to comment if you have any additional thoughts, about what will happen to “ignorant” people who have died.

Finally, note that a much more detailed document on this topic can be found at this link:

The resurrection of “ignorant” people


21 Responses to “Is any knowledge required for salvation?”

  1. on 11 Dec 2011 at 3:51 pmSarah

    Thanks for posting this article, Brian. I’ve been considering the issue recently too. How would you understand the verse below, in terms of who participates in the “resurrection of judgment” and when it takes place?

    2Cr 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

  2. on 12 Dec 2011 at 3:22 amBrian Keating

    Hi Sarah,

    It appears to me that everyone will end up being judged by Christ – whether they are raised during the resurrection of “judgement”, or during the resurrection of “life”. The only variable is when the judgement of a particular person takes place.

    As mentioned in the post, I think that people who are resurrected during the resurrection of judgement will be judged after the millennium – i.e., at the “white throne” judgement. The people there will be judged on their actions during the Kingdom age.

    People who are resurrected during the resurrection of life will presumably be judged by Jesus, very shortly after he returns. The people who are at that judgement will be judged on their actions during this age. Basically, it appears to me that this judgement will determine what specific “rewards” Christians will receive, when Jesus returns.

    For example, in the parable of the “minas”, a nobleman gives three of his servants money (in minas), and tells then to use those minas. When the nobleman returns, two of his servants did obey – and so their master rewards them. However, those servants do not receive the exact same rewards – the first servant is given authority over 10 cities, while the second servant is given control of 5 cities. So, if that parable refers to the rewards that Jesus will give to Christians (which I think it does), then we will not all receive the same rewards – our judgements will determine our specific rewards.

    Another item to note is that five different “crowns” are spoken of in the New Testament – the crown of life, the crown of glory, etc. It may very well be that these crowns also refer to specific rewards that Christians can be given at their judgements. Here is a page from the Truth or Tradition site, which discusses that possibility:


    One final note: I do not believe that the “sheep and goats” judgement (in Matthew 25) is the judgement for Christians. Rather, I think that that is the judgement for non-Christians who go through the Tribulation. In other words, I think that the judgement for Christians is a different event than the “sheep and goats”.

    I hope this helps!


  3. on 12 Dec 2011 at 8:09 amWolfgang


    your comment above to Sarah sounds like you believe that there will be more than one judgment (final judgment) …. now, as far as I can see, the Scriptures rather clearly always speak of this judgment in the singular and not in the plural. In addition, the Scriptures also speak of the resurrection in the singular, and not in the plural …as if there were several “resurrections” (resurrection events at various times or in various ages)

    Quite often Jesus’ words about “resurrection of life” and “resurrection of damnation/judgment” are interpreted as if there were 2 different resurrection events.

    John 5:29
    And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    When we compare this with the reference in Dan 12:2 and other places, it seems clear to me that there is only one resurrection event, and at that resurrection event in the last day, “… them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”

    Thus there are no “two resurrections” (in the sense of “resurrection events”) but only one resurrection event, which for some will be a resurrection to life and to others a resurrection of judgment.

  4. on 12 Dec 2011 at 9:45 amSarah

    Hi Brian,

    Thank for elaborating your view. I do agree with your basic premise that everyone will be given a fair chance to hear the gospel and either accept or reject Christ. It aligns with God’s nature, and scripture says several times that the gospel will be preached to the whole world. This cannot be accomplished fully in this age, because as you pointed out, a large percentage of the whole world lived and died without hearing the gospel.

    A few more thoughts regarding the resurrection. Jesus told some men 2,000 years ago that they would observe his return but would be cast out of the kingdom. It seems to me that either these men are already in hades now, and will somehow be given the ability to view Christ’s return, or else they will be resurrected at Christ’s return and then cast into hades. I think passages like John 5:29, as Wolfgang mentioned, favor the latter idea. I welcome your input though. Here are the verses I had in mind:

    Luk 13:28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.

    Mat 26:63 But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, [fn] the Son of God.”

    Mat 26:64 “Yes, it is as you say,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

  5. on 12 Dec 2011 at 10:31 amTim (aka Antioch)

    Brian – great article! I brought this topic up in my small group one night and some echoed the ‘automatic salvation’ doctrine. I asked for scriptural support but they could not produce it. It was a wish.

    If automatic salvation was true, then there is justification for abortion and killing of children for you would actually be doing them a great service. I hardly think that is correct.

    So I too have come to the notion that between the first death and the second death, there is a period of time. It makes sense to me that if salvation was a done deal with the first death, then why the restoration and then a second death? Seems there would be an opportunity to understand truth and repent. Those that live ‘good lives’ but are not Christian, those that have God’s law written on their hearts but have not believed in Jesus, might still be saved.

    Your article has expanded my understanding of this issue. Thanks.

  6. on 12 Dec 2011 at 11:40 amWolfgang

    you mention above

    … scripture says several times that the gospel will be preached to the whole world. This cannot be accomplished fully in this age, because as you pointed out, a large percentage of the whole world lived and died without hearing the gospel.

    as for “the preaching of the gospel to the whole world”, perhaps the following passages have something to tell (emphasis mine)?

    Col 1:5-6 (NASB)
    5 because of the hope laid up for you in heaven, of which you previously heard in the word of truth, the gospel,
    6 which has come to you, just as in all the world
    also it is constantly bearing fruit and increasing, even as it has been doing in you also since the day you heard of it and understood the grace of God in truth;

    Col 1:23 (NASB)
    23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

    As we can read, Paul already mentions that at the time of the writing of Colossians, the gospel had been preached “in all the world” / “in all creation under heaven” ….

  7. on 12 Dec 2011 at 11:43 amWolfgang

    you mention above

    So I too have come to the notion that between the first death and the second death, there is a period of time.

    Could you please clarify what you understand “the first death” and “the second death” to be? what period of time do you see between the two deaths?

  8. on 12 Dec 2011 at 3:00 pmSarah


    As we can read, Paul already mentions that at the time of the writing of Colossians, the gospel had been preached “in all the world” / “in all creation under heaven” ….

    Interesting point. If Paul meant “in all the world” in a literal sense, it must be reconciled with the fact that all the world didn’t actually hear the gospel in his day. It seems likely he was speaking in a prophetic future sense, similar to the following statement he made in the same book you quoted:

    Col 3:1 NIV – Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God.

  9. on 12 Dec 2011 at 5:37 pmTim (aka Antioch)


    The first death, to me, is our death in this life. The second death is the final judgment where those not written in the book of life are tossed into the lake of fire (which to me means annihilation and not eternal torment). My understanding is that after we die here on earth, we will be raised again (not necessarily resurrected) to face judgement. Those who pass will receive eternal life and those who do not will perish.

    The Bible is not clear on how much time passes between our being raised and when the second death occurs – that is the time period I am talking about.

  10. on 13 Dec 2011 at 8:44 amWolfgang

    how could Paul have been speaking in a prophetic FUTURE sense, when he clearly writes in the past tense and mentions these points as a past reality?

    I would say that understanding “all the world” in today’s way of thinking as “encompassing the whole globe” is the fundamental mistake. We must understand what we read on Scripture from the viewpoint and understanding of the writers at the time, not from the perspective and an understanding of terms of today’s readers.

    Therefore, I would conclude that those who are still waiting for a fulfillment of the gospel being preached “to all the world” (with an understanding of “world” in the modern day sense of “globally” / “each person on the globe”) are mistaken and are misinterpreting the biblical statement about this point. Reading Paul’s statements about the gospel having been preached to all creation and to all the world toward the end of his ministry is either a false claim made by Paul, or else it is true and the “modern day ideas about a global preaching of the gospel” are false. I believe Paul was correct, and the modern day “global preaching” theology with its conclusions regarding related events must therefore be incorrect.

  11. on 13 Dec 2011 at 10:33 amSarah


    I understand your point. And I’m willing to consider the possibiolity that Paul may have had a more limited view of “all the world” in mind. At the same time, it was not unusual for Paul to speak as though something was already true when it was still future, as I pointed out previously.

    I suspect our different viewpoints have to do with our approach to eschatology. Am I correct in assuming you hold a preterist view?

    What are your thoughts regarding how God will deal with the multitudes of unsaved people who never heard the gospel, given that Jesus is the only way to the Father?

  12. on 13 Dec 2011 at 11:24 amWolfgang


    I suspect our different viewpoints have to do with our approach to eschatology. Am I correct in assuming you hold a preterist view?

    I would say that my “viewpoint” about eschatology has come about due to how I have come to understand the Scriptures on these matters over the last decade or so … I would describe my understanding of so-called “eschatology matters” as “realized eschatology”, which may in various details coincide with some of the viewpoints that are commonly called “preterist”

    However, please note, I am not understanding the Scriptures they way I do because I hold a preterist viewpoint … if anything, I hold a somewhat preterist viewpoint because of the way I understand the Scrriptures. In other words, it was not a preterist view which led me to understand the Scriptures regarding eschatology in the way I do, but it was my understanding of the Scriptures (for example, such as those passages I mentioned above) which led me to the understanding and view I now hold.

  13. on 13 Dec 2011 at 11:30 amWolfgang


    What are your thoughts regarding how God will deal with the multitudes of unsaved people who never heard the gospel, given that Jesus is the only way to the Father?

    I consider God to be a just God and thus trust that He will deal with anyone – including “the multitudes of unsaved people who never heard the gospel” – justly.

    In addition, I would say that “the gospel” (the good news regarding a redeemer, a Messiah) has been made known by God ever since the time of Adam and Eve … thus man also has no excuse when it comes to taking responsibility before the throne for one’s faith or unbelief. I would think that any man or woman who so desires has had the opportunity to learn the gospel and to make his/her decision whether to believe it or reject it.

  14. on 13 Dec 2011 at 12:03 pmSarah

    Thanks, Wolfgang. I appreciate your thoughts.

  15. on 17 Dec 2011 at 1:30 amwhatnow

    Well Tim, and others, the first and second deaths, now this is totally explained in the book of life in Malaki 3v16, known as the Book of Remembrance by YHWH the Father our Creator. It is prophesied in Daniel 12v2, and the time that passes between our being raised and the second death as you call it can also be found in Daniel 12v13, when Gabriel tells Daniel not to worry that he will stand in his lot at the end of the days. Therefore, as far as the time it takes is measured in Daniel who was in the second half of the 6th century now one can do the math for the day of YHWH is near, and according to Daniel in 2v40, the times of the end will be in the 4th kingdom for which we are in now so times are nearing as in those days the book was also sealed and the words were shut up in Daniel 12v4,9 and now it is the time of the end the 4th kingdom, and the book is now opened again. Those who believe that all prophcies have been fulfilled, then they are in for a rude awakening, for it has just begun to come to the end of times, and prophcies are yet to unfold of the Father YHWH, especially of the ‘New Covenant’ in Jeremiah 31v31-40, this is the best prophecy and is the future, but first the one in Ezekiel 38 of the last battle will have to come to pass first remember. Judging by the controversy of what is going on in Israel and the Palestinians it won’t be too long now about the true chosen of Israel when YHWHs Jerusalem Movement is about to begin. As far as YHWH having His Word and Voice spreaded globally, well with the priest popes prophets and leaders today all misleading the flocks in Malaki 2,and in Jeremiah 23v1,2, it is a good thing that YHWH will in Ezekiel 36v22-38, YHWH will put His spirit within us and cause us to walk in his statues, and we will keep His judgments; but then before the day that burns like an oven in Malaki 4v1, YHWH will send Elijah the prophet before the great and dreadful day, in Malachi 4vs.5and 6. And in Malachi 3v18, “then shall you return and discern between the righteous and the wicked between who will serve YHWH, and who will serve Him not.” For we have a merciful and loving Father the Creator YHWH and is why He has told us all through His book of life that He is our Savior and our Redeemer, and have forgotten all of our sins, in Isaiah 43v3,11, and in Isaiah 44v22, and in Isaiah 42v13, He tells us that “Yea, before the day was I am He; and there is ‘none’ that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?” Many of you must know that even with the gospel going global which too was prophesied in Daniel 11v36-12:v10, preferably vs.39, of the strange gods that will rise for ‘political gain’ of today. These religions and idolatries have been practiced for over 2000 years now and nothing has gotten better for our world, one must realize this with all of the mayhem, slavery, and poverty, indifferences, greed, and wars and natural disasters are there those who are this delusional not to see it going on? There is a sword in Jeremiah 25, upon the earth, a sword of the enemy in Psalms 83, and in Psalms 69v28, being allowed by the Almighty Father YHWH for those who keep all religions YHWH hates them, and it religions are taught to the flocks and is angering YHWH, and for leaving Him, and for changing His ordinances in Isaiah 24v5, this is why we have suffering so much more today. None of these religions has ever worked in all of these 2000 years and they won’t until the people are lead back unto YHWH in Malachi 3v7, to do the law in Malaki 4v4, as we were told for our own sakes and to prolong our lives as prophesied in Deut.32v44-47, from Moses, and this is ‘final’ for YHWH does not change, as He says in Malachi 3v6. Praise the Strong One YHWH.

  16. on 17 Dec 2011 at 1:54 amwhatnow

    Yes, the knowledge of the Father YHWH is required for Salvation, knowing that He is the Savior and Redeemer and to hornor Him as said in Malachi 1v6-14, why does the truth need moderation? What are you afraid of truth?

  17. on 18 Dec 2011 at 9:30 pmwhatnow

    YHWH is our Salvation and our Redeemer Isaiah 43v11 and 44v22, and none else can save us in Isaiah 43v13. YHWH Bless.

  18. […] Note: this post is essentially a “follow-up” to my last post – which dealt with the question of “Is any knowledge required for salvation?”. That post can be found here. […]

  19. on 13 Jul 2012 at 5:31 pmKeairra Smith

    Salvation is the key to eternal life. Salvation is the saving of the soul from the soul from sin and its consequences. Most people call it being delivered from evil or being redeemed from sin. One has to feel the spirit and want to become saved. One is to believed in God and trust that he died from all of our sins. If you believe and become baptized you shall be saved. The purpose of this site is to reach out to all sinners and touch their lives. To prove to them that there is a God who created us all and love us so much that he gave his only son to die for the world’s sins. The intended audience is those who is not saved and want to become saved. Many people agree with me that the key to salvation is through God and his darling son Jesus Christ who went through so much so that his children could have a better way of living.

  20. on 13 Jul 2012 at 5:39 pmTremechante Tolliver

    Salvation means being saved or protected from harm. It also refers to being delivered from the power and penalty of sin. To become saved, one had to go through certain steps. First, one had to testify by letting the people of the church know they wanted to become saved. Next, they would be placed on the mourners benched and later asked questions about the lord. After going through this process one would be baptized. However, I refuse to ask any questions at this point in my life. I was anxious that my time had finally come. I wanted to be similar to my older siblings and cousins by taking circument during church. In order to become saved, there are many questions one must know. It is important that these questions be answered because, this shows your really interested in knowing about the lord. One Sunday morning, I was placed on the mourner’s bench along with a few other cousins. There I sat patiently until I was asked to come forward. The time finally came; it was time to approach the platform. While standing there I could remember being asked “Do you believe that Jesus did for you and me”, I replied by saying yes. Then I was asked “Do you want to be baptized”, as my eyes watered I slowly replied by saying yes. After being saved, I was expected to act as the older kids. I could no longer sleep throughout church service. As a young kid this was extremely difficult for me to handle. I was use to taking naps at certain times of the day.

  21. on 13 Jul 2012 at 8:33 pmtimothy

    Keairra and Tremechante,

    Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of GOD.

    Here are some important words from the bible(king James version):

    Acts 2:
    21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

    23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

    24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

    25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

    26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:

    27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

    28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.

    29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

    30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

    31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

    These people had taken Jesus, a humane being (a mam) and killed him on a cross. He was buried for three days and three nights.

    Then GOD raised him from the dead after three days…..this is called the resurrection of Christ.

    He offered his life for you two too. Because of his love for all humans who will make him, Jesus Christ, their Lord (King). Giving his life for us to have eternal life, we too will be resurrected when he returns for his Church.

    Here are the scriptures:

    Romans 10:
    9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    Say that Jesus is lord and believe GOD raised him from the dead.



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