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Communication Policy

My Hesitancy to Censor Cheap Jerseys china

I completely understand that some people are here to convert us to the Truth as they understand it. I too have gone onto blogs and message boards for the purpose of presenting ideas that I knew they did not believe. For example, I went on the bible.org message board to share about biblical unitarianism. I was permitted to argue my side for about two days, but once it became clear what I was doing they locked the thread and never reopened it. When I persisted they banned me from their site effectively excommunicating me. This has happened to me several times and it stings. If you’d like to listen to a Byte Show where I spoke about my experience in detail click here. I have experienced the frustration and anguish of being censored so I really do not want to do it to others. Ideally, we would be able to use the Scriptures and reason to patiently convince people over time. Of course, there have been a few cases where I have actually censored people, but this has only occurred a total of three times over the last four years and that is because I have erred on the side of grace rather than strictness or a desire for ideological purity.

However, at the same time I feel that we have come to a crossroads as to what to do. People get frustrated when someone overwhelms the recent comments list with irrelevant or mean-spirited statements. Furthermore, it has come to my attention that people are actually leaving the blog because of the unchristian behavior of a few. This is where I think a line must be drawn. If someone leaves because of the truth that is one thing but if they get annoyed or verbally abused then that is another. To insure that as many people as possible can enjoy this web community, I think the time has come to officially lay out a policy. But before I suggest what behaviors will not be tolerated along with a policy for censoring, let’s turn to the Scriptures as our guide.

Biblical Guidelines for Communication

Here are some verses to keep in mind regarding how the Bible teaches us to communicate with eachother. Since kingdomready is a biblically based website we hold ourselves and others to these standards.

Psa 34.12-13 [NASB]
12 Who is the man who desires life And loves length of days that he may see good? 13 Keep your tongue from evil And your lips from speaking deceit.

Ecc 10.12-14 [NRSV]
12 Words spoken by the wise bring them favor, but the lips of fools consume them. 13 The words of their mouths begin in foolishness, and their talk ends in wicked madness; 14 yet fools talk on and on. No one knows what is to happen, and who can tell anyone what the future holds?

Eph 4.29, 32 [NASB]
29 Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear…32 Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.

Eph 5.2-4 [NASB]
2 and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma. 3 But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; 4 and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.

Col 3:8 [NASB]
But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth.

Col 4:6 [NASB]
Let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person.

2Tim 2.23-26 [NASB]
23 But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels. 24 The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, 25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

Jam 1.26 [NASB]
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless.

What Is Considered Inappropriate

With these texts in mind I would like to propose a brief list of inappropriate behaviors. They are numbered for the sake of future reference. Please keep in mind that we need to be concerned just as much with how we argue as we are with what we argue. We need to remember the apostle’s exhortation to defend the truth with gentleness and respect (1 Peter 3.15).

  1. Cursing, foul language, and blasphemy (blasphemy = trash-talking God)
  2. Attacking people’s intelligence, motives, or character rather than their arguments. (i.e. calling people stupid, etc.)
  3. Completely unrelated comments (i.e. pontificating about summer in poetic form on a post about Jesus’ resurrection
  4. Incoherent comments or riddles (i.e. including bizarre, contradictory, or just plain nonsensical statements)
  5. Overwhelming the recent comments list unnecessarily (try to put all of your comments in one entry per post)
  6. Hijacking a post repeatedly (i.e. we all do this from time to time but if you do it constantly it really does become onerous)
  7. Disrespect towards others (i.e. sarcastic statements intended to belittle, inappropriate labeling of people, overly critical demeanor towards a certain person, etc.)

How To Disagree Respectfully and Fruitfully

Here are some positive statements about how we can argue constructively. Whereas the previous list speaks to what we should not do, this list gives guidance as to what we should do.

  1. Keep in mind that while you may be convinced that what you speak is the Truth, others are equally convinced about the truth of what they say. No one has “all the truth” and we must all be aware of the possibility that we could have been mistaken or misled. We have not always known what we know now, and at some point (or points) in our lives we have all come to realize that something we once believed was wrong. Pr. 11:14 – “Where there is no guidance the people fall, But in abundance of counselors there is victory.”
  2. When presenting your viewpoints, it is not sufficient for debate to simply proclaim what you believe, especially if that viewpoint differs from either “mainstream” Christianity or the views of the majority on this board. You must present evidence from the Scriptures as to why you believe what you believe.
  3. Frequently a viewpoint or belief is backed up with Scripture, by means of incorrect interpretation or faulty logic. When presenting a rebuttal to another poster’s presentation, as has been stated above, use compassion and brotherly kindness, and avoid name-calling and making judgments about the poster’s intelligence, character, or motives.
  4. In a rebuttal to another poster’s views, it is not sufficient to make sweeping generalizations, such as “That’s wrong,” “That’s ridiculous,” “That’s just your opinion,” “You don’t know what you’re talking about,” etc. A rebuttal must address the specific issues in the view you are rebutting, and demonstrate from Scripture why you believe them to be in error.
  5. Faulty logic can be demonstrated fairly simply. An error in interpretation may be more difficult to prove. One of the biggest keys in interpreting the Bible is that all passages of Scripture on a given subject must agree and fit together without contradiction. If there are two possible ways to interpret a passage, but one contradicts other Scriptures while the other fits, then the one that fits is more likely to be correct.
  6. If, after open, honest debate, two parties still do not agree on an issue, and each side is convinced that the other “just can’t see it,” then the Christian thing to do is to “agree to disagree” and not continue wrangling and arguing about it. We will never agree on everything, so this will likely be how many debates will conclude.
  7. What we should avoid is taking the attitude of “I must proclaim The Truth, and continue to proclaim it whether they want to hear it or not.” If parties agree to disagree on a matter, they should let it go, and not keep bringing it up, especially in other threads that have nothing to do with the matter on which they disagree. If a poster continually proclaims his views with no intention of debating, it is seen as baiting an argument, which detracts from the thread, and it engenders strife as well.
  8. Official Censorship Policy

    As our Lord taught us, we are to correct each other in love and with respect when we see a brother or sister transgressing. However, there are times when someone persists and then the question comes up, “What do we do when someone refuses to change?” Here is the official policy we will use for such cases.

  1. Identify the inappropriate behavior (quote their exact words if possible) and gently correct the person with Scripture. Anyone is free to do this step. Be sure to also cite which specific “Inappropriate Behavior” the person has exhibited. Remember, the purpose of confrontation is so that the person would improve, not that they would get kicked off (Galatians 6.1).
  2. Email the moderators (moderators@kingdomready.us) to let us know that step #1 has occurred. The moderators are not always able to keep up on every comment that is made on this blog, so don’t assume that a moderator has seen you execute step #1. Also, bear in mind that it may be a couple of days before we get back to you.
  3. If the behavior persists, an official warning will be issued by myself (Sean) or Victor publicly (i.e. as a comment).
  4. If the person still continues in their inappropriate behavior, they will be removed from posting on the blog and an email will be sent directly to the offender with clear instructions on what they need to do in order to be restored to the community

I wish we did not have to have these rules, but in the end I think it will help all of us to be more godly in our e-conversation.

104 Responses to “Communication Policy”

  1. on 14 Nov 2009 at 2:45 pmJohn A

    Sean

    After my experiences over the past couple of weeks responding to blogs on this site I would like to offer the following observations.

    It seems to me that when someone posts an article that is their chance to say what they want to say, so lets say I were to post an article
    I can make it as short as I like of break it up into weekly sections for a longer post. As the author I have that control. Once that article is posted in all reality I should be done.

    Comments are there for those who read the article to have their chance to respond with their viewpoint. It may agree with the article, it may point out something the author missed or it may disagree and hopefully it explains why they disagree in a courteous and respectful manner. This is free speech in operation, is it not?

    I think we get into problems when people try to convince everybody else why they are “right”
    if I were to post an article and someone responded with a comment where they disagreed with what I had said, why should I feel compelled to respond and “argue” my point, or try to re-in-force my point, I’ve had my say now its their turn.

    A third party who then reads the article and then reads other comments can make up their own mind and they can make their own comment it they want to. If they want the author to respond or clarify a point then they can ask a specific question.

    I have read articles on other web sites that then offer a place for people to respond, I can read the article, read peoples comments make my own comment if I want to and move on. Its not an ongoing debate between author and respondents.

    I think it becomes a “war zone” when we try to convince each other of our point of view. Which quiet clearly we are not always going to do.

    There is a great saying “Less is more” which I think is applicable here.

    Thanks
    John

  2. on 03 Dec 2009 at 10:40 pmSheila Rae

    Do you have an active forum where all can participate? I would like that. I am non trinitarian.

    Blessings,
    Sheila Rae

  3. on 26 Jul 2010 at 10:39 pmRay

    How about adding something about endless strivings about the law as something to be prohibited? (Titus 3:9)

  4. on 22 Sep 2010 at 11:34 amsue wilding

    would you please do a teaching on Rev. 11? I’ve been informed by some that this has already come to pass yet, I can’t see that scripturally..the two witnesses. Thankyou.

  5. on 29 Mar 2011 at 2:55 pmMargaret Collier

    Sean – forgive me, but I submitted two more posts before seeing your request to use the , which I am now trying out.

    I was planning on posting two accusations at a time. Should I instead put the rest into one post? And should I wait until someone breaks the string before posting another?

    I really am sorry. I want to follow rules, but I didn’t know that one, and I made the bad mistake of posting before looking.

  6. on 14 Jun 2011 at 1:15 pmSean

    Margaret,

    no worries

  7. on 28 Jun 2011 at 5:22 pmJoseph

    I too would love to comment on the article after I finished reading it. Mainly in support, as it was a good read.

  8. on 17 Jul 2013 at 9:19 amPat

    How do we post a new topic?

  9. on 17 Jul 2013 at 1:12 pmSarah

    Pat,

    Only the mods can do that. However, this blog is searchable and there is a wide range of topics that may be commented on.

  10. on 18 Jul 2013 at 5:12 amJaco

    Pat,

    What you can do is, send the mods an article you’d like to get posted. If they agree to it, they can post it as written by a Guest Author.

  11. on 18 Jul 2013 at 9:51 amPat

    thanks guys… will try it out sometime.

  12. on 18 Oct 2013 at 8:48 amsez

    Latreuo, when used of the True God, is a Greek word denoting service given to the Lord God Almighty. Some have said that since Jesus is never given latreuo, He cannot be God. Besides being an argument from silence, Scripture explicitly disagrees with this position.Revelation 22:3 – And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him.I want to note that the word translated “serve” is latreuo. The object of latreuois the pronoun “Him.” In language, the antecedent of a pronoun is generally the closest noun that agree with the pronoun in gender and number. In this case, the closest antecedent is “the Lamb.” Some would consider “God” to be the antecedent.But John takes pains to show the unity the Almighty and the Lamb. Just a few verses earlier John writes:Revelation 21:22 – But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.The word translated “are” is NOT the plural form of the “to be” verb here. Instead, it is the singular form of the verb. In a literal translation, Revelation21:22 would say:Revelation 21:22 “for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb is its temple.” (literal)Grammatically, John indicates the most intimate unity of the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb with a singular verb.So whether one would argue that the antecedent of “serve Him” in Revelation22:3 is God or the Lamb, John has already indicated their unity. Even if one were to say that God is the one who receives latreuo, service would also be done to the Lamb by virtue of their unity expressed just a few verses earlier.That is the language of the New Testament, and it is clear and explicit. I affirm that the Lamb is God and the Lamb receives latreuo. Those who deny Jesus’ divinity disagree. In doing so, they disagree with Scripture. Could those who deny Jesus’ divinity please explain how you disagree with the clear language of Scripture?

  13. on 18 Oct 2013 at 5:12 pmAnthony Buzzard

    sez

    You are not dealing with the core points! What proposition is made by the creed of Jesus in Mark 12:29? How many YHVH’s are you proposing?

    “The Lord our God is one Lord” is not so hard.

    You surely know that Jews have never been Trinitarians and Jesus agreed with Jews on this point.

    1300+ times in the NT the Father is called GOD and none of the 11,000 occurrences of the various words for God means a TRIUNE GOD. So when the Bible says “GOD” where does it ever designate a Triune God? One example please.

    Ps 110:1 is exactly I Tim. 2:5: One God and one Man Messiah (adoni, kurios mou)

    Anthony

  14. on 19 Oct 2013 at 10:08 amsez

    Anthony,

    Please specifically address/refute the direct topic/argument here regarding rev 22:3.. is the lamb a recipient of latreuo? yes or no? please substaniate yr counter reply related to the evidence presented

    thankyou

  15. on 19 Oct 2013 at 11:23 amTim (aka Antioch)

    sez,

    You spend a paragraph explaining how the ‘Him’ must refer to the lamb and then state the NT is clear and explicit. If it was so clear and explicit, it wouldn’t require a paragraph of explanation. You also refer to the rule that ‘usually’ the pronoun refers to the most recent noun and therefore it refers to the lamb. But that is an assumption and looking at the next few verses, I think it shows it is the incorrect one.

    Here is how the NASB translates this passage:

    There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him; 4 they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads. 5 And there will no longer be any night; and they will not have need of the light of a lamp nor the light of the sun, because the Lord God will illumine them; and they will reign forever and ever.

    To me, it makes sense that it is only the Lord God that is the ‘him’ being referred to because verse 4 and 5 continue to speak about ‘him’ and verse 5 calls out only the ‘Lord God’ (and not the lamb), so it seems clear to me that it is not ‘them’ but ‘him’ (the Lord God) that is the ‘him’ of verse 3.

    FYI, other Unitarians have argued that it is okay to ‘latreuv’ Jesus as God’s agent as it is essentially giving that ‘latruev’ to God Himself, but personally, I disagree and do not hold to that.

    Peace

  16. on 19 Oct 2013 at 12:44 pmsez

    Thankyou Tim,

    you stated:

    “To me, it makes sense that it is only the Lord God that is the ‘him’ being referred to because verse 4 and 5 continue to speak about ‘him’ and verse 5 calls out only the ‘Lord God’ (and not the lamb), so it seems clear to me that it is not ‘them’ but ‘him’ (the Lord God) that is the ‘him’ of verse 3.”

    however in response:

    “As mentioned above, the nearest antecedent to “him” in verse 3 is “the Lamb,” both in English and in Greek.  The context does not favor God over the Lamb as the preferred referent.  Verse 4 says that “they will see His face,” but both the Lamb and God are seated on the throne, so both of their faces would be visible.  It also says that “His name will be on their foreheads.”  But we are told that both the name of God and the name of the Lamb will be on their foreheads (Revelation 14:1).  Verse 5 says that the light of the “Lord God” will be their light, but we are told that both God and the Lamb will be the source of light in the Heavenly City (Revelation 21:23).” – http://www.forananswer.org/Rev/Rv22_3.htm

    Please read the fully article that refutes yr explaination and counter reply accordingly

    peace

  17. on 19 Oct 2013 at 12:51 pmsez

    My apologies i forgot to add another source article in support of my arguement that is contra yr response

    http://www.forananswer.org/Top_JW/Jesus_Latreuo.htm

  18. on 19 Oct 2013 at 1:08 pmsez

    Anthony,

    please read – http://www.forananswer.org/Top_JW/Jesus_Latreuo.htm and counter reply accordingly

    peace

  19. on 19 Oct 2013 at 1:23 pmTim (aka Antioch)

    sez,

    I read Shamoun’s piece before when I was studying this. The other link was new for me. I do not see a concrete proof on either and the first link seems to acknowledge ambiguity, but still lobbies for the ‘him’ referring to Christ.

    I could not base a doctrine on such a verse. It still stands out to me that ‘Lord God’ is singled out in v5 but ‘him’ would refer to the lamb only or even God and lamb? Why would John switch the target from lamb to God in v5 without a clearer segue?

    I admit I only skimmed the pieces this time around. If there is a specific argument you want me to address, I can probably do that later. Thanks for your polite demeanor.

  20. on 20 Oct 2013 at 9:04 amAnthony Buzzard

    sez

    The point is grammatically unclear and the last place to make any huge decision!

    It affects nothing since Jesus is worshiped in the NT as Son of God.

    It is certainly true that latreuo does not apply to the Son elsewhere in the NT but it may apply to the Messiah in Dan 7 (one version of the LXX).

    Truth is established on the central very clear fact that the Father alone is true God and the Lord God is one Lord.

    Anthony

  21. on 21 Oct 2013 at 4:19 amJaco

    Sez,

    Latreuo is rendered to God alone in Rev. 22:3. The “slaves” are consistently presented as slaves of God and seeing his face would refer to God’s face, not Jesus’. Sam Shamoun is desperate in cherrypicking togetherness on the throne and in the temple. He’s missing the wood for the trees by craming irrelevant detail into the text. In the Bible – the LXX master text included – only God receives latreuo. That is extremely significant, since every other time when the opportunity arises for Jesus to receive it, it is never rendered to him.

    The only two exceptions may be the heavily elaborated LXXDan by Aquila which was later standardised and latreusosin replaced with douleusosin. And the Cibyllene Oracles where Adam is rendered latreuo, apparently since he is the image of the Almighty.

    No proof of the trinity there (or anywhere else).

  22. on 21 Oct 2013 at 8:04 amXavier

    Jaco

    Could you provie the quote for the Cibyllene Oracle for us?

  23. on 21 Oct 2013 at 10:11 amAnthony Buzzard

    Jaco

    Thanks for pointing a sample of latreuo for Adam: what is the ref. for that?

    Yes, Jesus is not GOD because there is only one GOD and He is the Father.

    Jesus is YHVH makes two YHVHs and destroys monotheism.

    It is amazing to quibble over a single pronoun in Rev. when thousands of pronoun samples designate God as a single Person.

    Anthony

  24. on 21 Oct 2013 at 10:30 amJaco

    My reference is this one:

    Behold, let us
    make man In a form altogether like our own, And let us give him
    life-sustaining breath; Him being yet mortal all things of the
    world Shall serve, and unto him formed out of clay We will subject
    all things. (Milton S. Terry, translator. The Sibylline Oracles,
    8:587-592. [p. 62])

  25. on 23 Oct 2013 at 12:59 amMichael

    Anthony writes- “The Lord our God is one Lord” is not so hard…..Truth is established on the central very clear fact that the Father alone is true God and the Lord God is one Lord…. You surely know that Jews have never been Trinitarians and Jesus agreed with Jews on this point.

    Response…You deliver all your points in a strong unwavering way because you know that it is absolutely true that God is not part of a Trinity.

    Anthony writes-It is amazing to quibble over a single pronoun in Rev. when thousands of pronoun samples designate God as a single Person…..The point is grammatically unclear and the last place to make any huge decision!

    Response… Knowing that Jesus is not part of a Trinity does not reveal what he is or more specifically how he is the Son of God. Gone in the above quotes is your confident tone and surety found in the first quotes I posted and now words like “quibble” and “unclear “are being used to deflect a scripture seems to support a Trinitarian theory.

    You use these dismissive and deflective words to hide the fact that your theory on how Jesus is the Son of God is as wrong as the Trinitarians.

    You don’t believe that God and Jesus are part of a Trinity? Congratulations, you are correct. But your calling God the biological father of Jesus and Kent Ross teaching that God with the necessity of his chosen young betrothed human female used the sperm from God to produce the Son of God is even more ridiculous.

    Knowing how Jesus is the Son of God makes Revelation 22:3-4 clear and is a topic that is avoided by your group and replaced with the Trinity straw man.

  26. on 23 Oct 2013 at 6:11 amJaco

    Jesus is not part of the Trinity because he is not-God (ontologically). So, if whatever you propose follows from the premise that Jesus is God is automatically unsound and invalid.

    Why don’t you enlighten us, seeing that Anthony got so much wrong?

  27. on 23 Oct 2013 at 8:55 amMichael

    Jaco writes- Jesus is not part of the Trinity because he is not-God (ontologically).

    Response…Jesus is not part of the Trinity because there is no Trinity to belong to.

    Jaco writes-So, if whatever you propose follows from the premise that Jesus is God is automatically unsound and invalid.

    Response…The word god is a title that humans have held which you well know but like all Unitarians the only thing you are confident with is the fact that Jesus is not the God which is why you warn me that if I propose “the premise that Jesus is God is automatically unsound and invalid”

    You are blinded by a belief system that is solely based on what you don’t believe to the point that you warn a person that writes “You don’t believe that God and Jesus are part of a Trinity? Congratulations, you are correct” not to propose a belief that Jesus is God!

    You brought up the word ontological, category of being. Everything that reproduces does so ontologically so can the Creator procreate, can God have an ontological Son?

  28. on 23 Oct 2013 at 12:32 pmtimothy

    Michael,

    Thank you for a breath of fresh air.

    “Knowing how Jesus is the Son of God makes Revelation 22:3-4 clear and is a topic that is avoided by your group and replaced with the Trinity straw man.”

    There is a formula that has allowed mankind to be redeemed and the major elements are Jesus Christ being 100% human ‘being and being’ the Son of God.

    When I first heard JCING, some 33 years ago, it became clear that making Jesus God and the trinity were a “pipe dream”.

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pipe%20dream

    I also believe, “the group”, is doing the same thing with Matthew 28:19 and their focus on being water baptized rather than following Jesus Christ’ holy spirit baptism. As a start, manifestating the “parakletos” with the 9 (nine) evidences outlined in 1 Corinthians 12-14.

    As Xavier described the water baptism of one person:

    **“Remember what your water baptism meant in that it symbolized that you received God’s spiritual baptism in salvation and you were placed into Jesus Christ [through his death].” Romans 6

    Water baptism is a proper symbol instituted by God to illustrate God’s [salvation].

    Further the example in the New Testament is that water baptism always follows the exercise of saving faith and is a public act of submission that pictures and identifies the person being baptized with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection and with the local congregation of believers.

    The reference is to both spiritual and water baptism. You cannot separate the symbol from that which it symbolizes. The baptism is of water that symbolizes the spiritual baptism that Christ accomplished for the believer in His death, burial, and resurrection. Spiritual or Water Baptism? An examination of Romans 6:3-4 by Cooper Abrams**

    Just as:** “Knowing how Jesus is the Son of God makes Revelation 22:3-4 clear and is a topic that is avoided by your group and replaced with the Trinity straw man.”**

    Likewise, water baptism becomes the “scandalon”[trigger in a trap or snare], straw man that keeps many from knowing[ginosko]:

    (( [ginosko]=properly, to know, especially through personal experience, “experientially know”))

    John 15: (kjv)
    26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

    It is an inside job, proof to ones self and not a proving to an audience.

    $ ignorance is bliss $

  29. on 23 Oct 2013 at 2:07 pmAnthony Buzzard

    Michael

    Thanks, Luke 1:35 explains precisely how and why and when Jesus is the Son of God.

  30. on 24 Oct 2013 at 8:47 amMichael

    Anthony writes-Luke 1:35 explains precisely how and why and when Jesus is the Son of God.

    Response…Yes it does and the text does not call God the biological father of Jesus with sperm from God with the necessity of his chosen human betrothed virgin female as co parent to the Son of God.

    Mary herself did not understand how God was the Father of Jesus but she knew that God was not the biological father of her son.

    Luke 2:48-51And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father’s business? And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them. And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.

    So Mary and family are amazed and do not understand how Jesus is so knowledgeable of scripture and years later Nicodemus sees this incredible knowledge and knows that God is with him in a way that no other man shares with God.

    John 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

    So Jesus tells him how he has this relationship with God.

    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    So Nicodemus reasons as you and Kent teach that being born of God must have something to do with human females and Jesus corrects him telling him that flesh begets flesh and Spirit begets spirit.

    John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?

    John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    But let’s go back to Luke and see what it does say.

    The angel tells Mary two things, first.

    Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

    The angel does not say that the conception brings forth the Son of God but a son because Spirit does not beget flesh and then he tells her the second thing.

    Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

    He will be called the Son of the Highest because he himself shall be born of God separate from the conception as with all men.

    Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

    The power of the Holy Ghost caused the conception and the power of the Highest begat the Son of God and again, as with all men, these are separate events.

  31. on 24 Oct 2013 at 8:53 amMichael

    Jaco, the question stands, “You brought up the word ontological, category of being. Everything that reproduces does so ontologically so can the Creator procreate, can God have an ontological Son?”

  32. on 24 Oct 2013 at 9:13 amJas

    Michael
    Just when do you say Jesus was born of the spirit and when are others? and is this begotting the one spoken of in Hebrews or the one spoken of at his baptism which most of the pre- nicene fathers quote from Luke?

  33. on 24 Oct 2013 at 10:50 amtimothy

    Michael,

    Bravo!

    Excellant, “rightly dividing”[orthotemnato] of GODs word.

    you write:

    “The power of the Holy Ghost caused the conception and the power of the Highest begat the Son of God and again, as with all men, these are separate events.”

    The following describes a second, of the separate events:

    Here is a quote from one of our LHIM text books, describing the spiritual man birth of Jesus Christ:

    **
    For Jesus to rise again, God had to give him new life.
    He was the first person to be born from the dead.

    Colossians 1:15, 18
    Who [Jesus Christ] is the image of the
    invisible God, the firstborn of every
    creature:
    And he is the head of the body, the church:
    who is the beginning, the firstborn from the
    dead; that in all things he might have the
    preeminence.

    “Born” means to be brought into life.

    “Firstborn” implies two things:

    (1) no one was born from the dead before him.
    (Others were raised from the dead, but they died again.
    Jesus was given a new life which will continue throughout eternity.) And

    (2) others will follow after him.

    He is called:

    the “firstborn of every creature” and

    the “firstborn from the dead.”

    The book of Revelation
    reiterates:

    Revelation 1:5
    And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness,
    and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince
    of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and
    washed us from our sins in his own blood,

    From just these three verses, we can clearly understand
    that Jesus, who was completely dead, was given a new life.

    Evident also is that this life is characterized as

    being born from the dead.

    When Jesus was baptized (Matthew 3:17) and on the
    Mount of Transfiguration (Matthew 17:5), God said of him,

    “This is my beloved son.”

    After he was raised from the
    dead, God said of him,

    “This day have I begotten thee.”

    Acts 13:32-34
    And we declare unto you glad tidings, how
    that the promise which was made unto the
    fathers,
    God hath fulfilled the same unto us their
    children, in that he hath raised up Jesus
    again; as it is also written in the second
    psalm,

    Thou art my Son, this day have I
    begotten thee.

    And as concerning that he raised him up from
    the dead, now no more to return to
    corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you
    the sure mercies of David.

    After His beloved Son was resurrected from the dead,
    God declared,

    “I have begotten thee,”

    which was prophesied in the second Psalm.

    “Begotten” is used of Jesus in another way regarding his first birth. The English
    word “begotten” is translated from the Greek gennao.

    Matthew 1:2, 16
    Abraham begat [gennao] Isaac; and Isaac
    begat [gennao] Jacob; and Jacob begat
    [gennao] Judas and his brethren;
    And Jacob begat [gennao] Joseph the
    husband [father] of Mary, of whom was born
    [gennao] Jesus, who is called Christ.

    The words “begat” and “born” are both translated from gennao because basically both English words mean the
    same thing.

    Jesus was born the first time of Mary. The
    angel of the Lord explained to Joseph how his espoused wife became pregnant.

    Matthew 1:20
    But while he thought on these things, behold,
    the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a
    dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David,
    fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for
    that which is conceived [gennao] in her is of
    the Holy Ghost.

    His first life began when he was born of Mary and
    ended on the cross.

    His second life began when he was
    born from the dead and will never end.

    According to Acts 13:33 and Psalm 2, the second birth is when he was

    begotten, or born, of God.

    Therefore we can accurately say that Jesus was born again.

    Of this second birth, we can also say that he was born from above, or born of God.
    The resurrected Christ is also referred to as the
    firstfruits.
    **
    1 Corinthians 15: (kjv)
    20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the *firstfruits* of them that slept.

    21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

    22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

    23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

    When Jesus Christ returns, “his” will be raised or changed into a spiritual bodied man.

    1 Corinthians 9: (kjv)
    24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

    Philippians 3: (kjv)
    14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

    We are in a race and need to continue:

    Romans 11: (kjv)
    22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

    Walt Disney made a “Silly Symphony” cartoon back in the 1930’s which shows how to continue(the tortoise) and how not to continue(the hare):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7PUTb8lhfQ

  34. on 24 Oct 2013 at 12:20 pmJaco

    Ah! Now I remember. This is the Michael, the hysteric who got banned from this blog two years because of his volatile temperament. He had a weird Christology which I still can’t figure out (Nestorian of some kind), but is so fixated on our arguments and so narcissistic, that he can’t coherently present what he actually believes. He even responds only partially to my comment. Still wounded, still looking for others to victimise. I don’t think you’re welcome here if you’re going to project your own inadequacies onto us, Michael. Change your demeanor or look somewhere else to vent your frustrations.

    Scroll up and read Communication Policy…

  35. on 24 Oct 2013 at 10:08 pmMichael

    Jas writes-Just when do you say Jesus was born of the spirit and when are others?

    Response…The word for begotten, gennao, has a different meaning for a male and female. For the male it is to father and the female to be born, God does not have children with human females and both aspects of gennao apply to Him. When one is begotten by God they receive a seed and when the seed is sown in death it is born of the resurrection.

    Jaco writes-This is the Michael, the hysteric who got banned from this blog two years because of his volatile temperament.

    Response…Since this of all places should be a place of truth then we should look at your accusations. Anyone here can see any of my posts over the years, hysteric?

    Was I banned over a volatile temper? Actually a moderator said that the discussion on how Jesus was the Son of God had been thoroughly examined and that he would end the topic, so I pointed out that the Trinitarian doctrine should also be banned as a topic for surly it has been examined to death.

    He told me that Trinitarians were very cunning and required constant monitoring because of small nuances that they were interjecting. I told him that was hypercritical and he banned me.

    Jaco writes-He had a weird Christology which I still can’t figure out (Nestorian of some kind), but is so fixated on our arguments and so narcissistic, that he can’t coherently present what he actually believes.

    Response…You may not understand this Christology but I believe that I at least been coherent.

    Jaco writes-Still wounded, still looking for others to victimize. I don’t think you’re welcome here if you’re going to project your own inadequacies onto us, Michael. Change your demeanor or look somewhere else to vent your frustrations.

    Response…I think you must watch too much Dr. Phil, I have clearly questioned teachers of your faith to explain how God could possibly be the biological father with the necessity of His chosen human female virgin to co produce the Son of God and I think it deserves an explanation.

    Jaco writes- He even responds only partially to my comment.

    Response… Where have I not responded to your comment and you have avoided the question presented to you yet again.

    Question…You brought up the word ontological, category of being.
    Everything that reproduces does so ontologically so can the Creator procreate, can God have an ontological Son?

    But you won’t answer because if you say God can have an ontological Son then I will ask how His son is ontologically different than Himself and if you say God cannot have an ontological son then you would be saying that the Creator cannot procreate so you say nothing, where have I seen this strategy before?

  36. on 24 Oct 2013 at 10:14 pmMichael

    Timothy writes- When Jesus Christ returns, “his” will be raised or changed into a spiritual bodied man.

    Response…The risen Jesus is never called a human being because he is now the ontological Son of God.

    Paul who received his gospel from the risen Jesus clearly states that he did not receive it from a human being.

    Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;

    Galatian 1:11-12 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

  37. on 24 Oct 2013 at 10:23 pmJas

    Michael
    Why do you not answer anyones questions with a relevent answer. I think you are trying to antagonize with your irrelevant answers. I am just trying to understand your belief but you can not even explain it.

  38. on 25 Oct 2013 at 9:04 amtimothy

    Michael,

    Great….

    You write:

    “Response…The risen Jesus is never called a human being because he is now the ontological Son of God.”

    Jesus Christ was first born as a proper, living, breathing, human being eikon, with the life of his flesh blood.

    Leviticus 17: (kjv)
    11 For the life[soul] of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

    When GOD raised Jesus Christ from the dead, he, Jesus Christ, was not in the form of an elephant, he was an eikon of a human being. He showed himself to the twelve and remarked:

    Luke 24: (kjv)
    39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit[meaning a phamtom] hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

    Many saw the resurrected, new bodied Jesus Christ:

    1 Corinthians 15: (kjv)
    5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

    6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

    7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

    And finally, after the ascension, the Apostle Paul saw the raised from the dead Jesus Christ.

    8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of ‘one born out of due time'[ektroma].

    [ektroma]=
    an abortion, abortive birth
    an untimely birth

    Jesus Christ’ resurrected body looked like a human being body, not an elephant. His blood, human being life force biology, had been given as an offering.

    (How would you, Michael, explain this:

    Ephesians 5: (kjv)
    30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.)

    1 Corinthians 15: (kjv)
    35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

    38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

    44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

    47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

    49 And as we have borne the image[eikon] of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

    [eikon]=
    an image, figure, likeness
    an image of the things (the heavenly things)
    used of the moral likeness of renewed men to God
    the image of the Son of God, into which true Christians are transformed, is likeness not only to the heavenly body, but also to the most holy and blessed state of mind, which Christ possesses
    the image of one
    one in whom the likeness of any one is seen
    applied to man on account of his power of command
    to Christ on account of his divine nature and absolute moral excellence

    Jesus tried to explain to Nicodemus:

    John 3: (kjv)
    3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again[anothen], he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    [anothen]=
    from above, from a higher place
    of things which come from heaven or God
    from the first, from the beginning, from the very first
    anew, over again

    At Jesus Christ return, will “his”, be called spiritual, flesh and bone, human beings because they are now the ontological sons of God?

  39. on 25 Oct 2013 at 5:37 pmMichael

    Jas writes- Why do you not answer anyone’s questions with a relevant answer. I think you are trying to antagonize with your irrelevant answers. I am just trying to understand your belief but you cannot even explain it.

    Response…Well, these are serious charges so we should look at what has transpired so far.

    What was the point of my first post #25, “Knowing that Jesus is not part of a Trinity does not reveal what he is or more specifically how he is the Son of God”

    And then I told Anthony, “But your calling God the biological father of Jesus and Kent Ross teaching that God with the necessity of his chosen young betrothed human female used the sperm from God to produce the Son of God is even more ridiculous”

    So Anthony explains how God is the biological father of Jesus and how God with the necessity of his chosen young betrothed human female used the sperm from God to produce the Son of God when he writes “Luke 1:35 explains precisely how and why and when Jesus is the Son of God”

    An answer you apparently had no problem with so I go on to explain what Luke 1:35 actually says, a fairly lengthy answer compared to the one that a lecturer, author, teacher and leader gave me. So this cannot be an example of my not “answering anyone’s questions with a relevant answer”

    Next Jaco warns a non Trinitarian that “Jesus is not part of the Trinity because he is not-God (ontologically). So, if whatever you propose follows from the premise that Jesus is God is automatically unsound and invalid. Why don’t you enlighten us, seeing that Anthony got so much wrong?”

    Again, my fairly lengthy explanation of Luke 1:35 answers Jake’s question so this cannot be an example of my not “answering anyone’s questions with a relevant answer”

    Jaco brought up the word ontological so I asked him several times “You brought up the word ontological, category of being. Everything that reproduces does so ontologically so can the Creator procreate, can God have an ontological Son?”

    He refuses to answer this question and yet you don’t seem to find this problematic while at the same time warning me “Why do you not answer anyone’s questions with a relevant answer”

    Now we come to your question “Just when do you say Jesus was born of the spirit and when are others? and is this begetting the one spoken of in Hebrews or the one spoken of at his baptism which most of the pre- nicene fathers quote from Luke?”

    Again, the answer to when and how Jesus was begotten by God was answered in my fairly lengthy explanation of Luke 1:35 which I added to in my response to you.

    Again, the only thing Anthony wrote explaining how Jesus became the Son of God was “Luke 1:35 explains precisely how and why and when Jesus is the Son of God” which you did not find violate your edict concerning a “belief but you cannot even explain it”

    Why don’t you explain how God is the biological father of Jesus with sperm from God with the necessity of his chosen human betrothed virgin female as co parent to the Son of God as Anthony and Kent teach?

    Why don’t you answer the question that Jaco won’t touch so that no one on this site feels antagonized “The word ontological, category of being, everything that reproduces does so ontologically so can the Creator procreate, can God have an ontological Son?”

  40. on 25 Oct 2013 at 6:19 pmMichael

    Timothy writes- Many saw the resurrected, new bodied Jesus Christ: Jesus Christ’ resurrected body looked like a human being body, not an elephant.

    Response…What people saw a new body? What do you mean it looked like a human body? He appeared in the one that he had right down to the nail holes but not every time.

    John 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

    Mark 16:12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.

    The human body is a tent that if you are in it then you are alive and if you are not in it you are dead.

    2Peter 1:13-14 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

    But the risen Jesus could enter and exit his tent and used it to be seen by his disciples.

    John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

    The word translated as dwelt is the verb skenoo, to fix ones tent or live in a tent. You can skenoo with a canvas tent but not with your human body as the risen Jesus did.

  41. on 25 Oct 2013 at 6:24 pmJas

    Michael
    I can not answer how God could be the biological Father of Jesus because I know he isnt just as I know he is not the ontological Father of Jesus. He is the firstborn( first created) of a very new generation which would make him like Adam and Chavah in their generation
    I really wanted to know when you believed Jesus became the Son of God not just called the Son of God which I see from your last response to Timothy you believe it was his resurrection but you believe it was ontologically which finally ansered my question.
    Are Angels and other heavenly beings ontologically the Sons of God because they are spiritual bodies?

  42. on 25 Oct 2013 at 6:32 pmJas

    Michael
    Where did the body of the risen Jesus go when the spiritual Jesus left it? Did he hide it in the woods,closet or maybe he disassembled it atom by atom then reassembled it . The Word made flesh was the Holy Spirit indwelling the body of a man called Jesus at his baptism.

  43. on 25 Oct 2013 at 9:47 pmtimothy

    Jas has ask:

    “Where did the body of the risen Jesus go when the spiritual Jesus left it?

    So far I have found no answer. However, here is an explanation about a spirit leaving a human body:

    Luke 11: (kjv)
    24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he(the unclean spirit) walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house(the man) whence I came out.

    25 And when he cometh, he findeth it(the man) swept and garnished.

    26 Then goeth he(the unclean spirit), and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in(into the man), and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

    Here may be the way for you to understand or answer your question:

    Ephesians 3: (kjv)
    17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

    18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

    *for one to be able to comprehend a “four dimensional” phenomena[phainomenon] that is outside our normal mental understanding.

    19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

    It always comes back to the agape love which passeth knowledge. Perhaps each must seek this comprehension privately with their own parakletos.

    *GOD in Christ in You in Christ in GOD*

    John 17: (kjv)
    21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

    22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

    23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

    Hoping this will help Michael find an answer for all of us.

  44. on 25 Oct 2013 at 11:04 pmMichael

    Jas writes-I cannot answer how God could be the biological Father of Jesus because I know he isn’t just as I know he is not the ontological Father of Jesus.

    Response…Since God is not a biological human being then it seems safe to say that he would not be the biological father of anyone but how do you “know” that Jesus is not ontologically the Son of God?

    Jas writes- He is the firstborn ( first created) of a very new generation which would make him like Adam and Chavah in their generation.

    Response…Jesus is the first of a very new generation of what?

    Jas writes-I really wanted to know when you believed Jesus became the Son of God not just called the Son of God which I see from your last response to Timothy you believe it was his resurrection but you believe it was ontologically which finally answered my question.

    Response…Jesus was the Son of God from the moment he received his seed from God and like Adam he would have been rendered dead if he had sinned by losing his seed which contained his resurrected life and being, a consequence not shared by those born of God after his resurrection.

    1John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

    Jas writes- Are Angels and other heavenly beings ontologically the Sons of God because they are spiritual bodies?

    Response…Jesus is the only begotten, single of its kind Son of God. He is not an adopted son of God he is the Son of God.

    Jas writes- Where did the body of the risen Jesus go when the spiritual Jesus left it? Did he hide it in the woods, closet or maybe he disassembled it atom by atom then reassembled it.

    Response…I don’t know, where was he before he appeared in a locked room, was he hiding in the closet? Where did he go when he vanished from their sight, did he run into the woods real fast?

    John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

    Luke 24:31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

    Jas writes- The Word made flesh was the Holy Spirit indwelling the body of a man called Jesus at his baptism.
    Response…Sadly for anyone that believes that, no, the Word was made flesh, manifested after the resurrection.

    1John 1:1-2 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;

    The promise made to the fathers, that which was with God from the beginning, the Word that was with God, eternal life was manifested by the risen Jesus taking on a human body (skenoo) and showing this eternal life to his disciples.

  45. on 26 Oct 2013 at 1:18 amJaco

    Yes, this is the same Michael.

    He got banned because of a nasty streak, hysteria in his communication and an undermining attitude toward posting rules. He has not change one single bit. Instead he barges onto this blog, and starts to terrorise left, right and center. And guess which page he happens to do this? COMMUNICATION POLICY! One-way communication, sledge-hammer style. He still thinks he’s got all the answers and his Nestorian Christology is still presented as unquestionable truth.

    Maybe this mister should consider watching Dr. Phil. He might realise that he fixated on “identity foreclosure” status in his identity crisis and that his boiling frustration with disagreement is a typical symptom thereof. How bright can you be if you think that hysterically pushing people around on their blog will meet with acceptance and cooperation? Someone call the doctor…

  46. on 26 Oct 2013 at 5:40 amtimothy

    Jaco,

    Well, I decided to check with my “doctor” and found this for “ALL” to listen to:

    http://lhim.org/sunday/teaching_notes.php?id=349&mode=audio&page=0&find_me=judging

    Ephesians 4:32 (kjv)
    And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.

    agapao se’

  47. on 26 Oct 2013 at 6:06 amtimothy

    Luke the Beagle dog lip syncing southern bible belt doctrine:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw60gVeYj0k

  48. on 26 Oct 2013 at 11:31 amJas

    Michael
    So you believe that Jesus was the Word then took a human body as a tent. How was Jesus related to God before he skenoo amongst mankind? Again are Angels and other heavenly beings also ontologically the Sons of God because they are spiritual beings not biological beings but have to have been generated somehow?
    As far as my Adoptionist belief I think I have many 2nd,3rd,4th century witnesses to the fact that God told Jesus ” Today I have fathered You” at his baptism plus still a few even after that. These witnesses are on record of been Quoting Luke’s account except for Justin who gives his source as the Memories of the Apostles.
    Btw I dont believe Jesus is still the adoptted Son of God but has received a special regeneration that makes him the Firstborn of the Dead, First fruit,at present only begotten and the birthright over Future Israel.

  49. on 26 Oct 2013 at 11:40 amRay

    We might think “I’m born again. I’m ready for the kingdom. I’m ready.”, but are we ready enough to spend a day with some of the great men of the Bible, like John the Baptist?

    I wonder what that would be like. Jesus said that there has been no greater prophet than him, and yet one that is least in the kingdom of heaven is even greater.

    So if I felt comfortable around John the Baptist, would I be ready for the others in heaven?

    Would I get along OK? Am I really ready?

  50. on 26 Oct 2013 at 1:43 pmMichael

    Jas writes-So you believe that Jesus was the Word then took a human body as a tent.

    Response…Jesus was not the Word, God is the Word or the Word of God is God. God made a promise to the fathers and that word that promise was eternal life.

    Jas writes- How was Jesus related to God before he skenoo amongst mankind?

    Response…God begets children by seed and Jesus is not an adopted son so his seed was of God. As all beings Jesus existed as seed before he was begotten.

    Anthony once wrote- how can you exist before you are born?

    National Geographic- The oldest plant ever to be regenerated has been grown from 32,000-year-old seeds—beating the previous record holder by some 30,000 years.

    Jas writes- Again are Angels and other heavenly beings also ontologically the Sons of God because they are spiritual beings not biological beings but have to have been generated somehow?

    Response…I would suppose that all spiritual beings share the same category of being but they are not begotten by God and will be judged by those that are and the world to come will not be subjected to them.

  51. on 26 Oct 2013 at 1:44 pmMichael

    Jaco writes- He still thinks he’s got all the answers and his Nestorian Christology is still presented as unquestionable truth.

    Response…Nestorian Christology was used to explain the incarnation of the second person of the Trinity of which I am not a believer. Do I believe that I have all the answers? Hardly, but I also do not believe that God is the biological father of Jesus.

    Jaco writes- “hysteria in his communication”

    Response…”he barges onto this blog, and starts to terrorize left, right and center. And guess which page he happens to do this? COMMUNICATION POLICY! One-way communication, sledge-hammer style”

  52. on 26 Oct 2013 at 3:16 pmRay

    Speaking of communication, I believe Jesus and the Father had this long before the world was made by them. (John 1: 1,2)

    It’s not at all unusual for someone to exist before a birth, for we all existed before our new birth. To be born of the flesh is one thing, and to be born of the Spirit, another.

  53. on 26 Oct 2013 at 3:42 pmJas

    Michael
    Could God have adopted Jesus before he was ontologically begotten at his Resurrection ?

  54. on 26 Oct 2013 at 4:04 pmJas

    Jas writes- He is the firstborn ( first created) of a very new generation which would make him like Adam and Chavah in their generation.

    Response…Jesus is the first of a very new generation of what?

    ————————————————————————————- Michael
    What is “Response…Jesus is the only begotten, single of its kind Son of God” if not exacty a very new generation.
    But Jesus was and is the only begotten because the first resurrection has not occurred yet in which many will have there bodies reformed from the elements and soul with full memory intact returned back from storage. These will be human bodies which can die but will be like the body of Adam in which they can live for almost 1000 years as priest to the nations. The second death will not have power over them because at GWT Judgement they will raised and receive eternal life in a spiritual body.

  55. on 27 Oct 2013 at 8:38 amRay

    I believe Jesus is the first begotten of God in several ways.

    Wasn’t he begotten of God as he came from him into the womb of Mary as he took on our condition, that of the flesh?

  56. on 27 Oct 2013 at 9:33 amJas

    Ray
    Actually that was the very beginning of his existence and if you accept the accounts you also must accepted it says “he Shall be CALLED” not “shall be” .
    Micheal is right about timing as the resurrection for him becoming the Son of God but does not understand why he was called the Son of God prior.

  57. on 27 Oct 2013 at 10:52 pmMichael

    Jas writes-Could God have adopted Jesus before he was ontologically begotten at his Resurrection?

    Response…Jesus is the literal non adopted Son of God begotten by seed and born of the resurrection.

    Question…Jesus is the first of a very new generation of what?
    Jas writes- “Response…Jesus is the only begotten, single of its kind
    Son of God” if not exactly a very new generation.

    Response…Again, Jesus is a new generation of what? You believe he is “only begotten “or unique because he is the only one that has been resurrected so far, are you suggesting that when others are resurrected that Jesus will no longer be God’s only begotten Son.

    Jas writes- But Jesus was and is the only begotten because the first resurrection has not occurred

    Response…Jesus is and always will be God’s only begotten, unique Son because he is the literal Son of God. Jesus as “only begotten” or single of its kind it not because he has been born of the resurrection first.

    Jas writes- Michael is right about timing as the resurrection for him becoming the Son of God but does not understand why he was called the Son of God prior.

    Response…Again, Jesus as any man was a son of God from the moment he received a seed from God.

    1John 3:2 Beloved, we are now the sons of God…..not will be. Again, if Jesus had sinned in his life then his seed could not have remained rendering him as dead as the first Adam being unable to be born of the resurrection.

    Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    1John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

    Jesus was the Son of God from the moment he received his seed from God and the seed was sown in death and was born of the resurrection. The risen Jesus is not a human being given eternal life as some kind of reward for good behavior; he had the very life of God inherently by seed.

    John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

  58. on 28 Oct 2013 at 10:42 amtimothy

    Hello Jas and Michael,

    Sorry to say, I get confused with the way “seed” is being used, beyond “figuratively”.

    Early on,GOD refers to Jesus as being the woman’s seed.

    GOD speaks directly to devil and Eve:

    Genesis 3: (kjv)
    15 And I will put enmity between thee[devil] and the woman[Eve], and between thy[devil] seed and her[Eve] seed; it shall bruise thy[devil] head, and thou shalt bruise his[Jesus] heel.

    GODs promise of a redeemer, her seed, made to EVE.

    Galations 3: (kjv)
    16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

    Jesus Christ was promised as the woman’s seed and Abraham’s seed through King David.

    And then:

    1 Peter 1: (kjv)
    23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, [by the word of God], which liveth and abideth for ever.

    [by the word of GOD]

    Mark 4: (kjv)
    14 The sower soweth the word.

    Please help me to understand where scripture is saying that “Jesus is GODs son via GODs seed”. We are sons of GOD by:

    Romans 10: (kjv)
    8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

    9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    And when baptized with holy spirit:

    Acts 1: (kjv)
    5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

    Jesus does not call the comforter(parakletos) seed, but, the spirit of truth and not seed.

    John 16: (kjv)
    12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

    13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

    When baptized with holy spirit, by Jesus Christ, one receives the spirit of truth/parakletos and not a seed. As Jesus taught, one determins what fruit the word of GOD seed brings. A clue is to be found in Matthew chapter five, “the sermon on the mount”.

    14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

    John 17: (kjv)
    8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

    14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

    17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

    20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

    21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

    22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

    26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

    The bottom line, is knowing who GOD is, who Jesus Christ is and who you were before you believed and who you now must become by renewing your mind.

    2 Peter 1: (kjv)
    20 Knowing[ginosko] this first, that no prophecy[prophetela] of the scripture is of any private[idios] interpretation[Epilusis].

    [ginosko]=
    to learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel
    to become known
    to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of
    to understand
    to know
    Jewish idiom for sexual intercourse between a man and a woman
    to become acquainted with, to know

    [prophetala]=
    prophecy
    a discourse emanating from divine inspiration and declaring the purposes of God, whether by reproving and admonishing the wicked, or comforting the afflicted, or revealing things hidden; esp. by foretelling future events
    Used in the NT of the utterance of OT prophets
    of the prediction of events relating to Christ’s kingdom and its speedy triumph, together with the consolations and admonitions pertaining to it, the spirit of prophecy, the divine mind, to which the prophetic faculty is due
    of the endowment and speech of the Christian teachers called prophets
    the gifts and utterances of these prophets, esp. of the predictions of the works of which, set apart to teach the gospel, will accomplish for the kingdom of Christ

    [idios]=
    pertaining to one’s self, one’s own, belonging to one’s self

    [Epilusis]
    a loosening, unloosing
    metaph. interpretation.
    classical use refers to letting the hunting dogs loose(the RED ZONE) on the prey, where they go into an uncontrolled frenzy like piranha fish.

    2 Peter 1:20 , 2 Timothy 2:15 and 3:16 are the most fundamental, foundational verses to adhere to when studying GODs word.

  59. on 28 Oct 2013 at 8:01 pmJas

    Timothy
    I agree seed is mostly used as figurative but the verses you quoted in Genesis the proper translation would be bloodline (offspring) of which Jesus was both. Abrahams seperation from the nations and the requirements for Isaac,Joseph and Judah were very necessary in the offspring of Eve crushing the Offspring of Satan which could not have happened if Cain’s bloodline would have mixed with Adam’s bloodline through Eve.
    I am still not sue when Michael thinks Jesus received the so called seed and when others do but I think he thinks seed is literal.
    I believe maybe seed is figurative for the indwelling of The Holy Spirit in Jesus and the indwelling of A Holy Spirit in those who take hold of the Law by entering the New Priesthood Covent.

  60. on 30 Oct 2013 at 12:37 amtimothy

    Jas,

    Very interesting.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krD4hdGvGHM

    What is the relationship, IYHO, between that which Onan did:

    Genesis 38: (kjv
    8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother’s wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.

    9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother’s wife, that he spilled it[his seed] on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.

    and GODs first commandment to human/man kind:

    Genesis 1 (kjv)
    27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

    28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

    and GODs commandment to Noah and his three sons:

    Genesis 9: (kjv)
    1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

    and Eve disobeying GOD:

    Genesis 3: (kjv)
    6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

    ***NOTE–
    Genesis 1:12
    And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.***

    and finally:

    Genesis 19: (kjv)
    31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:

    32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

    33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

    34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

    35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

    36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.

    And much later on

    Ruth, descending from:

    37 And the first born bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.

    marries: Boaz, whose mother is Rahad, the Jericho harlot from:

    38 And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.

    The tricky part of all this seed thing, is that seed seems to always come from the male parent side.

    Marry is the descendant of King David via her father Joseph.

    Matthew 1: (kjv)
    16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband[aner] of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

    [aner]=
    with reference to sex
    of a male
    of a husband
    of a betrothed or future husband
    with reference to age, and to distinguish an adult man from a boy
    any male
    used generically of a group of both men and women
    OLD MAN=father

    NOW WHAT?

  61. on 30 Oct 2013 at 8:29 amMichael

    Timothy writes- Please help me to understand where scripture is saying that “Jesus is GODs son via GODs seed”.

    Response…You have determined for yourself that when the word seed is used in connection with being born of God that it is simply a figure of speech so why the false plea for help with an opinion you treat as fact, embrace it as others have done before you and embrace your definition of Christ.

    John 7:48-52 Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed on him?
    But this people who knoweth not the law are cursed.
    Nicodemus saith unto them, (he that came to Jesus by night, being one of them,)
    Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?
    They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee? Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet.

  62. on 30 Oct 2013 at 9:23 amJas

    Timothy
    Judah went outside the call to stay separate from the nations that mixed with Cain’s blood so yes none of his children by that wife could receive the blessings of Jacob much less the Promises God made to Abraham and his offspring Issac and Jacob. Judah was the bloodline to the offspring that would crush Satan’s offspring which the reason Tamar ( Grandchild of Shem) played the harlot to protect.
    I realize most here believe the flood was worldwide leaving only eight living but it was only localized to the Land of Canaan of which was over run with evil and immigrants from the land which Cain was exiled. I also realize people like to claim Ruth would forfeit this bloodline but Lot was of Shem and Bathsheba was probably untainted blood from Shem. We have no idea what tribe Mary was from we just know her Cousin was a direct offspring from Aaron which was probably the bloodline of Mary through her mother which disqualified Jesus from the Priesthood under the Aaronic Covenant .
    But the point I was making was the promises made to Eve and Abraham included their (seeds,offspring, descendants ) was plural which was fulfilled plurally by many to bring about the one who would crush satan. Whoever added that verse in Gal 3 did so by mistranslating the LXX version of OT which used the singular of the word for seed or sperm.

  63. on 30 Oct 2013 at 9:16 pmtimothy

    Jas,

    Thanks for your explanations.

    I may have given you this link before….it is interesting and may be medical true…

    http://bibleanswerstand.org/temptation_5.htm#_The_seed_of

    You exhibit much fruit of the spirit/love of GOD.

    Galatians 5:22-23 (kjv)
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

    1 Corunthians 13: (kjv)
    4 Charity[agape] suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

    5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

    6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

    7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

    [agape]=
    GODly ‘love’ in the New Testament
    selfless love of one person for another without sexual implications (especially love that is spiritual in nature)
    Agape is selfless, sacrificial, unconditional love, the highest of the four types of love
    one which became particularly appropriated in Christian theology as the love of God

    Especially: longsuffering, gentleness, goodness

    and

    endureth all things

    Matthew 7: (kjv)
    20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

    agapao se’

    timotheos

  64. on 30 Oct 2013 at 11:11 pmJas

    Timothy
    Yes I think you did but had read it prior. During my 3rd reading I still find this a mixture of some fact,some theory, some opinion and some myth. Of course my own belief could be said the same by someone who has not done the research . I have no motive to deny the virgin birth other than seeking the truth has prevented it because it completely disqualifies Jesus as the prophesied Messiah.
    Other than that I have many witnesses to the fact it was added to make Jesus ontologically God therefore God.

  65. on 31 Oct 2013 at 12:37 amtimothy

    Jas,

    Thanks again for your views, explanations and perceptions about forgeries which make Jesus GOD(and IMHO deny the power available for christians today)

    Hoping you will soon draw your conclusions and teach others also.

    Timothy

  66. on 31 Oct 2013 at 10:24 amJas

    Timothy
    I have major problems with becoming a teacher because under the New Priesthood Covenant which Jesus mediates we are to be taught All things needed by the indwelling of A Holy Spirit. So there is something missing that the 1st century hebrew christians understood that Satan has progressively confused ever since to the point it appears to have disappeared by the 2nd century in the writings of the church but more than likely disappeared slower because the roman church persecuted and destroyed writings which caused them to flee to the wilderness . This is the truth I seek by research and discussion .

  67. on 02 Nov 2013 at 10:05 amJas

    Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?
    They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee? Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet.

    Michael
    Whoever wrote this passage in John wrote it out of lack of knowledge of the geological region of which Elijah came out of which no Scribe or Pharisees would mistake. This would make me suspect or it least cautious in developing doctrine from the whole passage .

  68. on 02 Nov 2013 at 7:14 pmMichael

    Jas writes=Whoever wrote this passage in John wrote it out of lack of knowledge of the geological region of which Elijah came out of which no Scribe or Pharisees would mistake. This would make me suspect or it least cautious in developing doctrine from the whole passage .

    Response…No Jas, just as you want to free yourself of the responsibility of acknowledging that Jesus is the literal ontological Son of God and that Jesus as all born from God are begotten by seed by stating that “I know he is not the ontological Father of Jesus” and that “Michael thinks Jesus received the so called seed and when others do but I think he thinks seed is literal”

    So as the Pharisees before you who tried to free themselves from their responsibility of acknowledging that at the very least Jesus was a prophet of God they claimed that they knew Jesus was born in Galilee and so could not be a prophet.

    It makes me suspect that you think you the Bible as we have it if false but that you know where the errors are, it makes me suspect that you rely on teachings of material not found in scripture.

    But what causes me the most concern is that you and every single non believer and believer of every faith and doctrine on earth share absolute agreement on one single point. You all believe that Jesus is not the literal ontological Son of God.

    So the reasons people disagree on in matters of faith are innumerable and yet there exists among all people a single thought with unanimous agreement and that should concern all of you.

  69. on 03 Nov 2013 at 12:22 amJas

    Michael
    Actually I have great faith in bible but disagree with choice of MSS of the Roman Church because the early church fathers witness against it to much. But verse in Question is so blatantly false it witnesses against itself to the point of absolute it was not written by someone with the knowledge of the Prophets or the geographics of area of Israel and its surroundings .
    It is ridiculous to claim the Resurrected Jesus the Ontological Son of God because his existance is now by the power of spirit without every heavenly being is also. Jesus became a new creation at his resurrection just as man,angel and beast became one at the beginning by the Most High making it so.
    Btw the odds are Jesus was born in Galilee because there is no prophecy that Jesus be born in Bethlehem but there is one to what clan he would come out of.

  70. on 03 Nov 2013 at 4:47 amMichael

    Jas writes- It is ridiculous to claim the Resurrected Jesus the Ontological Son of God

    Response…Again, on this point you are in agreement with every non believer and believer of every religion and doctrine, something that apparently doesn’t concern you at all.

    How can you all be right?

  71. on 03 Nov 2013 at 11:01 amJas

    Michael
    I am not really concerned with what other people believe. I am in agreement with many on many different beliefs but that is only because I came to that understanding from my own reading and research.

  72. on 03 Nov 2013 at 12:12 pmTim (aka Antioch)

    Going against the majority may give one pause, but the majority is not infallible. What I see in the bible over and over again is that God works in humbling ways. His chosen people were slaves for over 400 years. The ark has been lost. The temple has been destroyed, twice. His chosen people were exiled and then brought back but under foreign rule. His son was crucified.

    After Jesus, the ‘church’ was quickly corrupted and was constantly going astray such that letters were written to reign in the ‘heresies’. Any read of the history of the fourth century reveals the politicking and coercive force that played a role in defining ‘orthodoxy’. The resulting church then also split, east vs west. Further fissure continued to occur and we have thousands of denominations now today.

    Yes, it bothered me that I was going against such a strong commitment to deity by the earthly church. It really was the last argument I dealt with before I landed where I am at. It is very frustrating that deity is a litmus test for so many others before they would consider me a brother. But I stand on what I discern from the OT and NT and I think Acts 10 in particular is a much clearer litmus test for believers. When one is indwelt with the holy spirit, that means one has been elected by God and who are we to go against God?

    Does God elect us because of our knowledge or because of our ‘heart’?

  73. on 03 Nov 2013 at 2:15 pmJas

    Timothy
    Knowledge should be something that comes with a Covenant Relationship with God not a requirement. I even think if we Could empty ourself of ALL knowledge we could enter a Covenant Relationship with God blindly then be taught all things needed by the indwelling of HS but in todays world it is almost impossible to not retain some of the deception of Satan therefore trying to serve 2 masters unaware . I have wondered if I met someone who knew nothing about any religion but recognized that something greater than all things created everything so perfect if they could just accept by faith the Word of God then enter a Covenant Relationship with God even before hearing it .
    But again I emphasize there are 2 blessings .one by Covenant the other by Grace the latter being the greater eventhough I long to be a part of both I have not even got close to shedding the deception or the mark of the the one who wants to be God

  74. on 06 Nov 2013 at 5:29 pmtimothy

    Jas,

    Who can just empty themselves of all knowledge. We are bombarded continuously by the Devils media and smothered with the worldly unfruitful works of evil.

    We are given a means to overcome:

    Romans 8: (kjv)
    13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

    Colossians 3: (kjv)
    5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

    The how to comes by:

    James 1: (kjv)
    5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

    We need GODs help to be:

    Romans 12: (kjv)
    2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

    friheit/peace

  75. on 06 Nov 2013 at 11:43 pmJas

    Timothy
    All those verses are directed at people who were being ministered to by the Apostles or their chosen disciples. They were not dealing with 1900 years of deception. I realize that you believe you are one of the few that has been enlightened as almost all christians believe. Not only do I know I have not of yet but am fairly certain I have not met anyone that is but fairly certain is not absolute.
    My statement was “if” which the more I learn makes it very unlikely someone of this age could.

  76. on 07 Nov 2013 at 12:29 amtimothy

    Jas,

    Well, I believe you are enlightened. Why? Because I have followed your [exposition] for a long, long time now and can safely say something like Jesus said about Peter.

    [exposition]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposition_(narrative)

    Matthew 16: (kjv)
    17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

    You may be beating around the bush by not seeing “if” in the light of continuing. As, “if” one continues to follow Jesus as lord, they still have the hope of being resurrected and changed at Jesus’ return, while many are like those in the parable of the sower, who do not continue.

    Please listen to Seans fathers’ past Sunday’s teaching “Saved through Faith”.

    http://lhim.org/sunday/teaching_notes.php?id=499&mode=audio

  77. on 07 Nov 2013 at 6:11 pmJas

    Timothy
    I would think that if I had entered a Covenant Relationship I would know it especially since Jeremiah and Paul explain very well just how we are taught and what we are taught. I am very sure that very few have entered since early 2nd century but who they were has been nearly buried because the Roman church persecuted ,prosecuted ,executed and burned everything that witnessed against them.
    Now as far as Grace I am pretty sure I will stand in judgement and be found worthy of receiving eternal life .
    But really the promise to Israel of the 1st resurrection is only still open because it was an eternal promise but the whole purpose of what it was to produce came with Jesus.

  78. on 07 Nov 2013 at 9:11 pmtimothy

    Jas,

    Great. You must have entered into something, as witnessed by you tenacious continuance on this here blog.

    Yes, Jesus came, and is still with us for support and leadership.

    Ephesians 2: (KJV)
    11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

    12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

    13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

  79. on 08 Nov 2013 at 1:20 amJas

    Timothy
    Thirst is my driving factor. My continuance is truthfully nothing more than being selfish .
    As for those verses they are speaking about exiled Israelites being brought back or called to enter the Promise God made in Hosea to the Israel. Jesus mediates this Priesthood Covenant for Israel to fulfill the Promise.

  80. on 08 Nov 2013 at 10:51 amtimothy

    Jas,

    Jesus said:

    Matthew 5: (kjv)
    6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

    So you are blessed and are being filled.

    John 6: (kjv)
    35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

    You are righteous now, it is one of your five son-ship rights.

    FIRST=*redeemed*

    Galatians 3: (kjv)
    13 Christ hath *redeemed* us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

    SECOND=*sanctified*

    THIRD=*justified*

    1 Corinthians 6: (kjv)
    11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are *sanctified*, but ye are *justified* in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

    FOURTH=*righteous*

    Romans 5: (kjv)
    19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made *righteous*.

    FIFTH=*ministry of reconciliation*

    2 Corinthians 5: (kjv)
    18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the
    *ministry of reconciliation*;

    Ephesians 1: (kjv)
    1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the [saints] which are at Ephesus, and to the [faithful] in Christ Jesus:

    [saints]=Hagios=
    most holy thing, a Saint

    [faithful]=pistos=
    trusty, faithful
    of persons who show themselves faithful in the transaction of business, the execution of commands, or the discharge of official duties
    one who kept his plighted faith, worthy of trust
    that can be relied on
    easily persuaded
    believing, confiding, trusting

    Ephesians says of itself, that it is written to the
    [faithful Saints] at Ephesus. Whether or not these had been barbarian gentiles or Hebrews returning from captivity is not specified. What is specified matters, these were faithfull “bible thumping” most holy Christians, the body of Christ, his church.

    Yes, I am learning much about these so called gentile Hebrews, by your writings.

    I am trying to keep my focus on what we are, “a new creature”.

    2 Corinthians 5: (kjv)
    17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

    GOD is in Christ in us.

    When we are in fellowship, having been forgiven our re-occuring sins “in the name of Jesus Christ”, we are in Christ in GOD. This is a 24/7/365 process as we stay in the race for our prize, a new, born again, resurrected body at Jesus Christ return and our entrance into the soon, coming to Earth, Kingdom of GOD.

  81. on 10 Nov 2013 at 7:57 pmJas

    Timothy
    To tell you the truth I can not find one justification for “having been forgiven our re-occuring sins “ but only find being forgiven for past sins when we enter a Covenant Relationship by COMPLETELY accepting the Word of God that convicts us, taking hold of the New Priesthood Covenant that God made with Jesus and the being washed clean of ALL sins by being water baptized in the Name of the High Priest who mediates and sends his priest(A Holy Spirit) to teach us how to maintain and obey the Word of God. If we fall away after that then ALL we have left is Grace to give us a chance at eternal salvation along with the rest of world. Like I said I am very very certain I have not been enlighten and probably have not known someone who has been YET.
    Just because I thirst to continually know more does not make me enlightened especially since I still sin against God and my fellow human.

  82. on 10 Nov 2013 at 11:39 pmtimothy

    Jas,

    Today’s Sunday teaching “Born again, again”, was about most of the things you wish to know. Later in the week I will give you a link when the electronic stuff is set up.

    Whether you will be persuaded, believe and
    know that you know you believe is to your eternal benefit. And it would bless my heart to see(here in writing) you have the same jubilation we read about the Apostles having at Pentecost.

    Sean, as a man, has written his “code of conduct” for behavior here on the KINGDOM READY blog. Fine. However I was taught by his earthly father and our heavenly father:

    Psalm 119: (kjv)
    11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

    2 Timothy 4: (kjv)
    1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

    2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

    Matthew 4: (kjv)
    4 But he answered and said, [It is written], Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

    7 Jesus said unto him, [It is written] again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

    10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for [it is written], Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

    Jesus did not say ‘well, well, mr devil, I agree that I agree to disagree with you’. No! He was instant to say:

    “IT IS WRITTEN”.

    It is [written]=grapho=
    to write, with reference to the form of the letters
    to delineate (or form) letters on a tablet, parchment, paper, or other material
    to write, with reference to the contents of the writing
    to express in written characters
    to commit to writing (things not to be forgotten), write down, record
    used of those things which stand written in the sacred books (of the OT)
    to write to one, i.e. by writing (in a written epistle) to give information, directions
    to fill with writing
    to draw up in writing, compose

    Apostle Paul said:

    1 Corinthians 11: (kjv)
    1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

    Which would be that we are to also follow Christ.

    So, Jas, all the scripture I write here to you is coming from my heart and meant to edify you.

    Romans 15: (kjv)
    2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.

    Jesus said:

    Mark 9:23
    23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

    GODs word says:

    Hebrews 4: (kjv)
    2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with [faith=pistis] in them that [heard] it

    [heard]=akouo=
    to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf
    to hear
    to attend to, consider what is or has been said
    to understand, perceive the sense of what is said
    to hear something
    to perceive by the ear what is announced in one’s presence
    to get by hearing learn
    a thing comes to one’s ears, to find out, learn
    to give *ear to a teaching or a teacher*
    *to comprehend, to understand*

    I have learned by giving *ear to a teaching or a teacher* and using my intellect *to comprehend, to understand*.

    2 Timothy 2: (kjv)
    2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

    2 Timothy 2: (kjv)
    25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

    Jas, I have continued to open my heart to you and you know what I believe.

    As seen in the parable of then sower, one can lose entrance into the Kingdon of GOD

    Holy Spiritual baptism by Jesus Christ has replaced the water baptism of John. One must still repent and change their behavior.

    I believe in a manifestation of holy spirit at holy spirit baptism as seen at Pentecost and taught in 1 Corinthians 12-13-14 and with Cornelius and his by hearing, with believing Peters words.

    What really worries me is how some, putting all their efforts towards trying to prove something to an audience watching:

    2 Timothy 3: (kjv)
    5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof:…………

    These are resisting the(as you write):
    “Like I said I am very very certain I have not been enlighten and probably have not known someone who has been YET”

    STOP…

    The teachings(to follow):

    “saved through faith” and today’s teaching,
    “born again, again” have enough for you to believe and be changed of heart.

    PS. Wolfgang is training dogs to help the handicapped with their shopping. One big puppy will go from the car to market store entrance, where the clerk will give a basket that gets carried back to master. He is doing benefit for mankind and mankind’s best friend, the dog.

  83. on 11 Nov 2013 at 12:36 amJas

    Timothy
    I rather doubt that I am resisting anything , but have come to some very tough road blocks to your beliefs. These road blocks are very very clear passages from the bible all of which make it impossible to be persuaded by anyone or anything but the Word of God that is how God gives us the tools to identify and protect us from deception. I realize you really believe and your motives are pure but that does not make you enlightened , it just makes you a loving person like the several billion upon the earth today.
    PS I also think Wolfgang is a loving person.

  84. on 12 Nov 2013 at 12:11 pmtimothy

    Jas,

    “ENLIGHTENED” ?

    Perhaps we have a difference in understanding of some words and their meaning. To me, you are the one not being enlightened by the scriptures and doctrines I share from my LHIM teachings.

    “Let me enlighten you on receiving the holy spirit into manifestation”, as an example.

    http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-halos.html

    Early artist portrayed Christians and Christ with halos. Do you think they actually were so enlightened that their heads glowed?

    Moses glowed after speaking with GOD, so much that he needed to wear a veil when public speaking to Israel.

    Have you looked at your self in the mirror to see if you have a halo?

    James 1: (kjv)
    23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

    Matthew 17: (kjv)
    2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

    2 Corinthians 3: (kjv)
    18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

    2 Corinthians 4: (kjv)
    6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

    I feel “enlightened, an inside job, when I listen to and study teachings about GOD, Christ and our Christian doctrine.

    http://lhim.org/sunday/teaching_notes.php?id=499&mode=audio

    Mixed with believing, one would be/should be enlightened. But there is a spiritual adversary who:

    2 Corinthians 4: (kjv)
    4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    Matthew 13: (kjv)
    19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

    2 Corinthians 2: (kjv)
    11 est Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

    Well, I still ponder where the early Christian artist came up with the halo.

    In the sixties, many were into observing “auras” surrounding people?

    PS….Wolfgang sent some pictures of his shopping basket dog. I hope to find a way to show you.

  85. on 12 Nov 2013 at 12:51 pmtimothy

    Jas,

    The link for last Sunday LHIM teaching
    “Born Again, Again”:

    http://lhim.org/sunday/teaching_notes.php?id=500&mode=audio

  86. on 12 Nov 2013 at 1:31 pmJas

    Timothy
    To me enlightened in this conversation would mean being taught and kept by A Holy Spirit as God revealed to Jeremiah as the gift of entering the New Priesthood Covenant which Jesus mediates between Israel and those joined who have accepted the rule of God by agreeing to obey them. As compared to the Aaronic Priesthood Covenant which mediated between Israel and those joined we now have a High Priest that has been tried and tested and has been appointed the office with a continual reign because he is being kept alive by THE HOLY SPIRIT indwelling his very being.
    The other issue with Aaronic Priesthood Covenant is it appointed Human Priest to teach and minister to Israel which was faulty as biblical history reveals.
    Early christian art is nothing more than early pre christian greek art which also present people glowing.
    There are about 2 billion christians who believe they are indwelled by Holy Spirit yet more than 30000 beliefs which differ atleast slightly. Each of these groups believe their group is the only group that is actually indwelt including your group or you would not be trying to teach them your absolute truth and would know A HS would teach them.
    I understand you feel very strongly about your belief and do not like to be doubted which was my reluctance to discussing them with you but that aside I really enjoy our discussions because I understand you do so out of love of your fellow human which I find too rare these days amongst professed christians.

  87. on 12 Nov 2013 at 5:04 pmtimothy

    Jas,

    Thanks for your kind words.

    The two teachings:

    1) saved through faith

    http://lhim.org/sunday/teaching_notes.php?id=499&mode=audio

    2) Born Again, Again

    http://lhim.org/sunday/teaching_notes.php?id=500&mode=audio

    Are an apex to the changes I have made to my past, wrong and incomplete doctrine.

    I never believed, in or about the so called holy trinity myth and that Jesus Christ is, was or became GOD.

    And continue to believe that John the Baptist and Jesus both gave prophesy that water would be and has been replaced with holy spirit baptism by the risen Jesus Christ.

    And my experiential practice, as taught and trained from GODs word, by using my “parakletos-spirit of truth-comforter” to carry out my committed ministry of reconciliation.

    I know it is hard to be trusting after being deceived many times…..however I trust the LHIM Pastors, teachings, classes and values.

    You are very forthright with what you now believe or do not believe. Letting go of ones skepticism can be profitable.

    Here:

    http://lhim.org/resources/audiostuff.php

  88. on 12 Nov 2013 at 7:44 pmRay

    How can I know that baptism of the holy Spirit did not became an addition to water baptism? Is it of necessity a replacement of water baptism?

    I’ve heard it said that water baptism is the outward ritual, while the baptism of the holy Spirit is the internal reality.

    How is the correct reading of John 1:1,2, Is it that the “same” in verse two refers to Jesus being “as God is”, or is it that the word “same” in verse two, points us to Jesus who is the Word that was in the beginning with God?

  89. on 12 Nov 2013 at 7:59 pmRay

    As concerning being born again a second time, Can a man be led of the Spirit of God, or begin something new of the Spirit of God, in some way that he had not been walking in?

    I believe it’s possible.

  90. on 12 Nov 2013 at 8:05 pmRay

    Does anyone tell us that one of our Sonship Rights is that we have the right to remain silent, because every idle word of man will be judged one day, and that every man will give an account of every one of those idle words one day?

    If we ever think that we have all of our doctrines right, I don’t think we know much of anything at all. ( as we ought to know)

  91. on 12 Nov 2013 at 9:36 pmJas

    Timothy
    I am not skeptical on the Issue of baptism , it is one of the most certain beliefs I hold because the actions of the Apostles and the very very clear passages concerning it. It rates right with the kingdom promised Abraham as a personal possession will be upon this earth at the end of this current age and heaven will be established upon this earth after and my belief that The Most High God is the only uncreated God and Jesus was and still is a man as he sits at the right hand of the The Most High.
    My conclusions are based upon extensive research and are totally without any bias or doctrine of any group eventhough most of my beliefs are held independently by many groups.

  92. on 13 Nov 2013 at 1:30 amtimothy

    I am not skeptical on the Issue of baptism either.

    In this senses realm world, cleaning, scrubbing, de-greasing are with in the realm of understanding. We have soap, shampoo, dish washing liquid, laundry detergent and chemicals like carbotetrachloride and acetone to remove grease.

    However, holy spirit baptism is beyond my realm of understanding as to how all the supernatural things that happen, happen.

    Romans 11: (kjv)
    33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

    Receiving holy spirit, parakletos.

    Speaking in tongues.

    Having 9 supernatural evidences.

    Dieing with Christ and raised with Christ.

    Seated in the heavens with Christ.

    Having the mind of Christ.

    Being able to effectually pray to GOD.

    To pray perfectly.

    To be supernaturally healed.

    To receive revelation.

    To be transformed by renewing your mind.

    To reconcile men to GOD.

    To produce fruit of the spirit.

    “by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:”

    To be “a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,”

    To have “the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ”.

    To be “justified by faith”.

    AND SO FORTH

  93. on 13 Nov 2013 at 9:19 amJas

    Timothy
    The giving of A Holy Spirit was prophesied by Jeremiah and was first given to Jesus at his Water Baptism.
    So baptism by HS is just a figure of speech to describe the Indwelling of A Holy Spirit in a person which is very understandable if we recall prophecy and Jesus’ baptism

  94. on 13 Nov 2013 at 11:52 amtimothy

    Jas,

    GOD bless.

    Yes!… “The giving of A Holy Spirit was prophesied by Jeremiah and was first given to Jesus at his Water Baptism.”

    No!… Jesus did not just “figuratively” receive holy spirit, it was a reality observed by his cousin John the baptist, “figuratively” described “as/like a Dove”.

    Jesus is the only one to have received holy spirit at/when, john baptized in/with water.

    holy spirit can only be received when the risen Jesus Christ does the baptizing. Jesus is the only one who can baptize with holy spirit

    Matthew 3: (kjv)
    11 I indeed baptize you [with=en] water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you [with=en] the Holy Ghost, and [with=0] [fire=pur]:

    Mark 1: (kjv)
    4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

    Luke 3: (kjv)
    3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

    Jas,

    Jesus did not need the “baptism of repentance for the remission of sins”:

    Hebrews 4: (kjv)
    15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet *without sin*.

    Jesus was and is *without sin* and did not have a “baptism of repentance for the remission of sins”

    {Acts 19: (kjv)
    4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

    Acts 5: (kjv)
    31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.}

    Acts 13: (kjv)
    24 When John had first preached before his(Jesus) coming the baptism of repentance to all(with exception or without exception ?) the people of Israel(the Samaritan woman at the well ?).

    2 Timothy 2: (kjv)
    25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

    2 Corinthians 5: (kjv)
    18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the
    *ministry of reconciliation*;

    The list of artributes in # 92 are meant *by me* to be “actual” and not figuratively, “figurers of speech”.

    Jesus, now lives, in a super natural, spiritual realm. A realm,which is beyond the understanding of the human mind and his knowledge of physics. Beyond “Ghost Busters”, “men in Black” and the other “Harry Houdini” (a Hungarian-American illusionist) types.

    It should be and is, overwhelming when one understands and believes they have this supernatural holy spirit in dwelling. It actually is proof, to the individual, when they begin to “speak in tongues”. And continues in Church, when one hears prophesy and tongues with interpretation.

    Unfortunately, many have not been taught the right doctrine about receiving holy spirit. Or to whom the wrong or incomplete doctrine has been given on the subject.

    Correction requires right teaching mixed with believing and perseverance to resist the devil who mission is to;

    John 10: (kjv)
    10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy:…..(the word of GOD)

    Mark 4: (kjv)
    15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

    Luke 8: (kjv)
    8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

  95. on 13 Nov 2013 at 7:21 pmJas

    Timothy
    I never said receiving or being
    indwelt was figurative , I said being baptized with,by was figurative. Just as Jesus was indwelt with The Holy Spirit so was those at pentecost by A Holy Spirit Literally .
    Actually Jesus’ baptism was to wash away the sin of Adam which all mankind from the offspring of Adam carried so he could be prepared for becoming the High Priest of the New Priesthood Covenant that was prophesied by Jeremiah .
    All speaking in tongues is just speaking in a language that is beyond your earthly knowledge which I am sure Jesus received and even shared with his disciples and the 70 so they could prepare the way for Jesus’s visit . At pentecost this is exactly what happened because the passage is very very very clear on that.
    I have known many people who were coaxed into faking speaking in tongues because it is so very very very easy to fake. Wanting to be apart of a certain group can induce lots of behaviors that are not true to that persons nature.
    You were very instrumental in clearing up my issues I had with whether there were one or two baptisms. The scriptures attested to only one literal baptism which is with water and is required to seal the covenant you are making with God that you will accept his Word and obey them and the other is figurative of receiving A Holy Spirit Bodily after one has agreed to accept and obey.
    What I really don’t understand is why you think water baptism would cause a problem in the first place even if it was nolonger needed.Do you believe it would have halted your spiritual baptism which you claim?

  96. on 13 Nov 2013 at 8:55 pmtimothy

    Jas,

    No! “Do you believe it would have halted your spiritual baptism which you claim?”

    I was water baptized at 12 years old and that did not interfere with anything.

    I have enjoyed having the conversation and discussions with you. Thank you.

    Now I am departing, which will allow someone else to share with you.

    I have a new computer with a Windows 8 system and need to learn how to do the basics with it.

    So, so long and GOD bless you with your pursuit for biblical knowledge.

    timothy

  97. on 14 Nov 2013 at 7:13 amRay

    It’s been said that worship is the common language of the people of God.

    I believe this should be our main communication with each other.

    It seems to be the language we all can agree on. That which is true worship and is of the Spirit of God is what will bring us all together in common unity.

    Our goal should be to prepare each other to receive the presence of God, to be prepared for all that the Lord has for us when he visits his people.

    Honoring God in all that we say, and becoming humble, not seeking our own ways or recognition, is what will bring the Church together
    in unity, and what power we should see manifest when all the Church is in unity in Christ Jesus! What a new creation we should be experiencing then!

    I wonder about what great things we will see the Lord doing then.

  98. on 14 Nov 2013 at 7:43 pmRay

    About communication, I found an interesting observation on the Line of Fire blog, (Sep 17th program, Jesus and the Trinity) by someone (Tom B.).

  99. on 15 Nov 2013 at 6:50 amRay

    Many Christians it seems, use the Trinity as a tool to communicate the diety of Jesus and the holy Spirit, and how they are connected to God, but is the purpose of the Bible to promote the Trinity, or what we might call the Trinity doctrine?

    If the Bible wasn’t given for that purpose, then is it that the Bible is sometimes misused?

    Now was the Bible written to demote the Trinity? I suppose that those who use it that way often misuse the Bible also.

  100. on 03 Nov 2015 at 8:24 pmJas

    Sean
    Ray calling someone stupid is not needed in a discussion

    http://lhim.org/blog/2013/08/01/jesus-prophet-messiah-or-god/#comment-1032189

  101. on 07 Nov 2015 at 12:32 pmJas

    397 Jas
    Ray
    Everyone here has opened their bible ,the whole bible and thoroughly researched. This is why they ALL believe the truth that YHWH our God Is One and Jesus is not God.
    Do you not comprehend this is a Unitarian blog???

    on 07 Nov 2015 at 1:10 am398 Ray
    Jas,

    Why should I think anyone will listen to misguided clowns who ignore the plain truth that Jesus is the maker of heaven and earth, and instead go some other way?

  102. on 09 Nov 2015 at 9:47 amTimoteo

    Jas,

    I absolutely agree:

    “Ray
    Everyone here has opened their bible ,the whole bible and thoroughly researched. This is why they ALL believe the truth that YHWH our God Is One and Jesus is not God.
    Do you not comprehend this is a Unitarian blog???”

    I try not to be offended, when someone we have lovingly sought to persuade that Jesus is not YAHWEH, makes a reply with a cutting insult:

    “Why should I think anyone will listen to misguided clowns who ignore the plain truth that Jesus is the maker of heaven and earth, and instead go some other way?”

    Jas, I surely do not think of you as being:

    a “misguided clown”!!!!!

    Romans 8: (kjv)
    1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

  103. on 11 Nov 2015 at 12:18 pmSean

    Ray is now blocked for violating our communication policy.

  104. on 05 Dec 2015 at 4:22 amTimoteo

    Michael:

    Michael,

    This is a side by side view of two different persons geneologys, illustrated in a UofM Zoology format:

    Starting with Abraham the son of Thara

    1) Abraham________1) Abraham
    2) Isaac___________2) Isaac
    3) Jacob___________3) Jacob
    4) Judas__________ 4) Judas
    5) Phares__________5) Phares
    6) Esrom__________ 6) Esrom
    7) Aram___________7) Aram
    8) Aminadab_______ 6) Aminadab
    9) Naasson________ 9) Naasson
    10) Salmon_______10) Salmon
    11) Booz_________11) Booz
    12) Obed_________12) Obed
    13) Jesse_________13) Jesse
    14) David_________14) David

    1) Solomon________15) Nathan
    2) Roboam________ 16) Mattatha
    3) Abia___________ 17) Menan
    4) Asa____________18) Melea
    5) Josaphat________19) Eliakim
    6) Joram__________20) Jonan
    7) Ozias__________ 21) Joseph
    8) Joatham________22) Juda
    9) Achaz__________23) Simeon
    10) Ezekias________24) Levi
    11) Manasses______25) Matthat
    12) Amon_________26) Jorim
    13) Josias_________27) Eliezer
    14) Jechonias______28) Jose

    1) Salathiel________29) Er
    2) Zorobabel_______30) Elmodam
    3) Abiud__________ 31) Cosam
    4) Eliakim_________32) Addi
    5) Azor___________33) Melchi
    6) Sadoc__________34) Neri
    7) Achim__________35) Salathiel
    8) Eliud___________36) Zorobabel
    9) Eleazar_________37) Rhesa
    10) Matthan_______38) Joanna
    11) Jacob_________39) Juda
    12) Joseph________40) Joseph
    13) Mary_________41) Semei
    14) Jesus_________42) Mattathias
    43) Maath
    44) Nagge
    45) Esli
    46) Naum
    47) Amos
    48) Mattathias
    49) Joseph
    50) Janna
    51) Melchi
    52) Levi
    53) Matthat
    54) Heli
    55) Joseph

    Greek word *aner* has been translated *husband*

    Classically it is *a male*

    and an *older, mature man*

    *OLD MAN* is still used in our cultural, idiomatic, American Southern speech slang to mean ones father.

    Often ones mother is call *my old lady*

    The *biker culture* use the terms to mean their PARAMOUR, adulterous, sex partners; my ole man and my ole lady.

    We know that Jesus can get angry. Remember the episode, the man with a withered hand.

    I imagine he would feel the same way with all the private interpretations of the most precious human credentials document, his genealogy, which goes all the way back to ADAM.

    There are 62 generations from Adam to Jesus.

    A geneology, is a lineage, listing, in a proper sequence, all the individuals in a decending order.

    A thinking cap activity reveals.

    Jesus is a decendent of King Dadid and his son, King Soloman.

    Joseph, Jesus’ stepfather, was a descendant of another of King Davids sons, Nathan. Nathan was the whistle blower who confronted King David heavily about his evil doings with Bathsheba killing her husband.

    David repented and was forgiven by YAHWEH.

    Joseph being Marys husband does not fit into the natural lineage. Husbands and wives do not belong in ones geneoalogy And Joseph, as Marys father fits in the proper order.

    And then, there is GODs lock.

    Having the three sets of 14 generations is the LOCK. And to see it clearly is the key to the lock. I can see all the names, numbers and parallels. Jesus has his human genealogy and GODs Holy Spirit power has extended Jesus genealogy and the same extension is there for his spiritual brethern at his return.

  

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