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Rethinking Hell Podcast

  


Chris Date, one of the contributors to RethinkingHell.com, has just launched a fantastic podcast. He kicked it off by interviewing Edward Fudge on his new book Hell: A Final Word. After this two part interview, he spoke to John Stackhouse of Regent College in Vancouver, Canada. Stackhouse, like Fudge, is a bible-believing evangelical who, because of Scripture, felt compelled to abandon his old view of hell as eternal torment and embrace instead an annihilationist perspective (i.e. those thrown into hell on judgment day will perish and see to exist). I see Chris has just put up the fourth episode to the podcast with Glenn Peoples in an effort to put forth a positive case for annihilationism. Also, my friend, John Roller, made it on the tail end of the second podcast, giving his own testimony. So, if you have an mp3 player or iPod, and the subject of hell is interesting to you, be sure to sign up to get the free podcast. Here the links below:

For iPods, iPads, iPhones: click here
For other mp3 players: click here
For regular computer downloads: click here

16 Responses to “Rethinking Hell Podcast”

  1. on 06 Sep 2012 at 1:28 pmChris Date

    Thanks for linking to our podcast! As a bit of a teaser, over the next two weeks we’ll release a two-part interview with Preston Sprinkle, who co-authored Erasing Hell with Francis Chan. At the time of the book’s publication, Sprinkle leaned toward the traditional view with Chan, but that has since changed. Stay tuned!

  2. on 06 Sep 2012 at 1:34 pmSean

    Hey Chris,

    Thanks for stopping by. I’ve really enjoyed your podcasts so far. I’d be curious about your thoughts on my own podcast interview with John Roller called The History of Hell.

  3. on 06 Sep 2012 at 2:24 pmSarah

    To think, only a few years ago I had no clue there even *was* an alternative Biblical view of hell. It’s been an oasis in the desert to discover and study these resources. As soon as I saw this post, I signed up for the podcast and downloaded all 4 episodes.

    I am very grateful for KR, Edward Fudge, Chris Date, and all the other folks who are working together to bring this message to the fore in the evangelical community!

  4. on 06 Sep 2012 at 4:15 pmSheryl

    I second Sarah’s comments. Wonderful, moving and educational interview. Mr. Fudge’s comment toward the end of the interview especially touched me — it’s not where you’ve gotten with all that you’ve been given, it’s “have you been faithful” with what you have. A good stop-and-think statement for us all. My thanks also to Chris Date for his efforts on his website and making the podcasts easily available…keep up the good work! I’m finding this information quite useful, and I’m sure others are as well, as we do what we can to promote biblical truth.

  5. on 06 Sep 2012 at 9:51 pmSheryl

    It just occurred to me as I am listening to a podcast by Dr. Glenn Peoples regarding the immortality of souls — he was discussing the flood and I thought about the utter destruction of the earth except for the tiny remnant of Noah and his family; then I remembered Sodom and Gomorrah and the equally tiny remnant God saved from that final destruction…even after Abraham pleaded with God to save the city if as few as ten righteous people could be found. And we know the end to that story. Are these two episodes “types” of the utter destruction we are going to face at the end of this age? This further convinces me that the unsaved majority will be destroyed completely (vs eternal torture) and the tiny remnant (Luke 13:24) will be saved for eternal life.

  6. on 06 Sep 2012 at 11:46 pmPeter Grice

    Sheryl, you have hit upon one of the strong arguments for conditionalism, and something that the N.T. does explicitly teach.

    Consider the similarity of the following two passages, and how they are both therefore clearly talking about the final fate of the wicked being exemplified in the destruction of Sodom, etc.

    “For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into [tartarus] and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, amaking them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked (for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard); then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment…”

    – 2 Peter 2:4-9

    “Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

    – Jude 1:5-7

    In light of this biblical theme, consider what Jesus teaches about the End in comparison to the days of Noah (Matthew 24:36-51). Standard rapture theology teaches that the righteous are the ones “taken away,” and the wicked “left behind.” Except that it just says “taken” and “left” in the text, and it should be clear from the context that it is the life of a (wicked) person that is the thing taken, while the one who is left (unharmed) lives on into the age to come. The controlling idea is not location and space (as though we need to leave this place), but rather, time. Lifetime. Eternality, preservation, immortality…

  7. on 07 Sep 2012 at 3:30 amPeter Grice

    There is another passage that *may* be plugged into the annihilation theme of the above passages. Consider Luke 13:1-5.

    Here’s the logic of the passage and teaching: Did some Galileans who met a particularly bloody (and presumably painful) fate at the hands of Pilate, actually deserve that? And were those who were crushed under a falling tower greater sinners than the rest? No, not more wicked than anyone else – since we ALL deserve it. The application is the same for each of the examples: “unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”

    At this point it seems to me there are one of two interpretations. Either we see this as a warning of impending doom for the immediate audience (a Preterist view), which implies that corporate repentance might have avoided the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD…

    …or, we understand Jesus to be speaking more broadly and theologically, in terms of the universal gospel message to repent and avoid the wrath of final judgment. If we don’t see it as preteristic, we can be certain Jesus didn’t mean that all the unrighteous will suffer death by calamity in this life. It would have to mean annihilation in the afterlife.

  8. on 07 Sep 2012 at 7:16 amtimothy

    Sheryl,

    Yes, Mr Fudge is a good teacher and I especially like how he calls figures and idioms, *pictures*.

    The pod cast and down loadable teachings become a vast personal library just clicks away.

    Be sure to follow the part ll of LHIMs *The Final Words*. It starts, live, on *tuesday* 9.11 @ 7:00 EST.

  9. on 07 Sep 2012 at 9:16 amSean

    Peter,

    The controlling idea is not location and space (as though we need to leave this place), but rather, time. Lifetime. Eternality, preservation, immortality…

    Excellent point, Peter. Christianity’s traditional triple-decker, vertical scheme is a “spatialized” version of the biblical horizontal time line. The issue is not when/how to get off this rock, it is when God will rescue it and how can we anticipate that now.

  10. on 07 Sep 2012 at 11:16 amSarah

    Sean,

    Christianity’s traditional triple-decker, vertical scheme is a “spatialized” version of the biblical horizontal time line.

    Could you elaborate on the relationship you see between the hell-earth-heaven spatial scheme and the Bible’s chronology? How would you see these two corresponding?

  11. on 07 Sep 2012 at 12:54 pmSean

    The Biblical scheme is horizontal:

    the paradise age => the present age => the age to come

    whereas the traditional idea is vertical:

    heaven
    ||
    earth
    ||
    hell

  12. on 07 Sep 2012 at 1:08 pmSarah

    Gotcha. That’s a pretty interesting connection…

  13. on 08 Sep 2012 at 9:33 amSheryl

    And, you know, very simply: the annihilation interpretation gives real meaning to “the second death.” In order to make it eternal punishment one would need to redefine “death.”

  14. on 06 Jan 2015 at 11:05 pmSarah

    This past Saturday Chris Date and Dr. Al Mohler – president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary – debated the nature of hell on the Unbelievable podcast. It was a respectful but lively discussion, and in my opinion well worth the listen. Chris and his team at Rethinking Hell are definitely making an impact on mainstream evangelicalism!

    Those interested can catch it here:

    http://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Episodes/Should-Christians-rethink-Hell-Dr-Al-Mohler-Chris-Date-debate-the-traditional-conditionalist-view

  15. on 07 Jan 2015 at 6:34 amRay

    It seems to me that Jesus taught about hell being a place of eternal suffering. I wonder if people in hell have eternal bodies where the “flesh” burns in horrible pain, but doesn’t ever get completely consumed away. I imagine it’s a place where there is no eternal sleep, and that it’s a place of no escape, a place where there is no “better tomorrow”, no hope, or any knowledge of God, a place where the devil and his angels are forever tormenting, and have the power to do whatever they want to in order to cause as much harm as possible to whoever or whatever is down there, inflicting as much pain and suffering as can be endured.

    If more people took hell more seriously, maybe more people would live a bit better while on this earth.

  16. on 09 Jan 2015 at 12:05 amTimoteo

    Sarah,

    I listen to the podcast and thank you for sharing the link.

    IMHO all the men make the subject too confusing, when it is a simple matter of:

    A) All mankind, from Adam to the return,will be raised from the dead.

    B) Those that are Christ, who have changed, the just, will be raised to glory and eternal life.

    C) After a period of time, the remainder of human kind will be raised to judgement and condemnation, eternal-life being destroyed in the lake of fire.

    a disturbing scriptural:

    Matthew 7: (kjv)

    23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    My endeavor with Living Hope Ministry teachings, is to stop having iniquity with my behavior and change.

    Romans 12: (kjv)

    2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

    1960, at U of M, our Humanities course was totally about Greek mythology myths.

    Here is where the eternal torment doctrine may have come from:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantalus

  

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