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The Lost History of Christianity: The Thousand-Year Golden Age of the Church in the Middle East, Africa, and Asia, and How it Died by Philip Jenkins is a fascinating book outlining the history of Christianity outside of Europe, especially during the first thousand years. This is an extremely important perspective on Christian history that is strangely absent from most books of Christian history, which focus solely on Europe.

In the grand scheme of history, Christianity did become deeply rooted in the West, but not until the second half of its history. According to Jenkins, Christians in Asia and Africa outnumbered Christians in Europe during the first thousand years. Early Christianity was centered not in Rome but in Jerusalem and the Middle East, and Western Europe was practically on the fringe of Christendom. Most Christians today would be surprised to learn that Christianity reached India, Ethiopia, and possibly parts of China before it reached England.

I believe that understanding the history of early Christianity outside of Europe is especially important for non-Trinitarian believers because many of the early Christian communities outside of the West did not follow or were not even aware of Trinitarian creeds. And those early Non-Western Christians who believed in the Trinity often defined the Trinity differently than it was defined at Nicaea and Chalcedon.

Nestorius (386-451), Archbishop of Constantinople, was condemned as a heretic in 431 because of his refusal to accept that Christ has a single nature that is both human and divine, as well as his refusal to call the virgin Mary “the mother of God” (theotokos). In the persecution that followed, many of his sympathizers fled into Persia, where Nestorian thought was accepted by the Church of the East (also known as the Nestorian Church).

During the Middle Ages, the largest Christian institution in the world was not the Roman Catholic Church but the Church of the East – based in Persia but with bishoprics and metropolitans as far east as China and as far south as India and Sri Lanka. Historians believe that the Church of the East maintained libraries of hundreds of thousands of texts and oversaw a network of tens of thousands of churches across Asia. The map below depicts the extent of the Church of the East during the middle ages – stretching as far west as Egypt and as far east as Hángzhōu and Guǎngzhōu (Canton, near Hong Kong).

The Apostle Thomas brought Christianity to India in the first century. Many of the early Christian churches and communities in India – the St. Thomas Christians – have survived to this day. The Thiruvithamcode Arappally in Kerela, India is believed to have been built in the year 57, making it the oldest surviving Christian church in the world.

Christians entered China as early as the 500s. Ä€luóbÄ›n, a Christian missionary from Persia, gained an audience with Emperor Tàizōng of China in the year 635. The Emperor issued an official declaration commanding the proclamation of Christianity throughout China. In 781, a giant stone monument was erected by Chinese Christians in Xi’an, China. Engraved with 1,900 Chinese characters, it describes in detail the history of the first 150 years of Christianity in China. The monument is currently housed in the Xi’an Beilin Museum. Just outside the city the tower of the Daqin Pagoda, the first Christian church in China (erected in 640), still stands. A collection of early Chinese Christian texts dating from 635-1000 has recently been translated into English.

During Mongol rule of China (1279-1368), Ghengis Kahn was friendly towards Christianity, allowed his sons to marry Christian wives, and intentionally spared the lives of Christian civilians during the Mongol conquests. By the time Marco Polo showed up in the 1270s, he was surprised to find Christian communities across China.

The Church of the East eventually collapsed after centuries of persecution from Muslims eroded the church’s foundation in Persia. Today, historians studying non-Western Christianity mourn the documented destruction of libraries of eastern Christian texts that would have helped us to better understand these early communities of Middle Eastern and Asian Christians. Nevertheless, a great deal of information has been preserved, of which Jenkins’ book only scratches the surface.

For in-depth study, I recommend the 560 page monster of a book, A History of Christianity in Asia: Beginnings to 1500 by Samuel Hugh Moffett. The title alone is enough to make many of today’s Christians wonder. The popular narrative – perpetually repeated by too many Christian history books that focus only on Europe – is that Christianity took root only in Europe and did not spread to Africa and Asia until European missionaries took it there between 1500 and the present. In fact, nothing could be farther from the truth.By the time Europe emerged as the dominant center of Christianity – around 1000 A.D. – many European Christians were still recently converted from paganism, while many African and Asian Christian communities were already in their twentieth or thirtieth generation of Christianity.

Why have so few Christians heard about non-Western Christian history?

I believe the main reason is theology. Christianity today is dominated by the doctrine of the Trinity as formulated by the Chalcedonian creed. This creed standardized the doctrine of the Trinity throughout the Roman Empire. Many Christians today simply assume that once the creed was formulated, every Christian in the world accepted it. But history shows that dissenting voices continued to spread their own Christology throughout other parts of the world. Even to this day, churches in India and Ethiopia that trace their roots to the first century have no link to the Nicene and Caledonian councils – councils that took place thousands of miles away and had almost no effect on them.

Because history challenges the notion that the Trinity is the one and only way to understand Christology, it’s no surprise that most Trinitarians would rather ignore non-Western Christianity and focus only on Europe. The Chalcedonian creed is a dominant theological view today because the church in the Roman Empire survived while other churches outside the empire with different theological views eventually died out. Had history turned out differently, the dominant theology today could have been quite different, and Christianity might even be thought of as an Eastern religion rather than a Western religion.

Philip Jenkins’ book challenges the normal approach to Christian history and forces us to stop thinking of Christianity as only a Western religion and instead come to terms with its truly global nature. Christianity exploded onto the world scene in first century Judea and quickly reached as far as Rome, India, and Ethiopia. History demonstrates that early Christians took Christ’s command to “teach all nations” (Matthew 28:19) very seriously.

Most religions are tied down to a specific culture, such as Hinduism in India or Shintoism in Japan. As a result, these religions rarely gain much ground outside of their native culture. But Christianity is different in that it transcends the barriers of ethnicity, language, and culture and finds root in every corner of the world. Christianity is able to take the shape of whatever culture it spread into (1 Corinthians 9:20). The end result will be a Kingdom on the earth, filled with believers “of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation” (Revelation 5:9). 

This, I believe, is something special about Christianity. God’s Kingdom is “not of this world” (John 18:36). It is neither Western nor Eastern, but rather, it is heavenly.

Here’s a quote from the end of “The Lost History of Christianity” that addresses this problem of how God could allow a thousand years of Christian advancement in the Middle East, Africa, and Asia to be lost:

Perhaps theological attempts to explain the destruction of churches or of ‘Christian nations’ are asking the wrong question, if they judge success or failure by the standards of the secular world. When, for instance, a Christian community loses political or cultural hegemony, historians might conventionally think of it as having failed, as if the faith must of necessity be allied to political power, and even military victory. Although such a linkage to worldly success was commonplace in earlier times, it has fewer adherents today. Instead of seeking explanations for the loss of divine favor, Christians should rather stress the deep suspicion about the secular order that runs through the New Testament, where the faithful are repeatedly warned that they will live in a hostile world, and a transient one. Nowhere in that scripture are Christians offered any assurance that they will hold political power, or indeed that salvation is promised to descendants of a particular community. Perhaps the real mystery of Christianity is not in explaining failure or eclipse at particular times, but rather in accounting for the successes elsewhere.

Indeed, someone from the Anabaptist tradition might argue that minority status and persecution are the natural and predictable outcome of attempting to live a Christian life, and it is the communities that coexist peacefully with state power that have departed from the norm. What matters is not the size or numbers claimed by churches, but rather the quality of witness demonstrated by Christians in their particular circumstances. Of course, Christians were persecuted in seventeenth century Japan, and in many other places before and since. And just as evidently, Christians have often experienced the status of being persecuted minorities, or, commonly, persecuted majorities, sometimes in societies they had once dominated [such as Persia]. Why should any historically informed observer expect matters to be different? As the letter to the Hebrews declares, we have no abiding city.

76 Responses to “Book Review: The Lost History of Christianity”

  1. on 05 Mar 2013 at 11:40 amJas

    Does this book also reveal that many of these groups were sabbatarian? Does it mention unitarianism went side by side with sabbatarianism for many many centuries till the persecutions of the universal church and muslim church over took them?

  2. on 05 Mar 2013 at 1:35 pmJas

    If you want a fuller account here is a great book


  3. on 05 Mar 2013 at 1:53 pmSheryl

    Matt…this is a wonderful review and makes me think of back when I was a trinitarian….I remember feeling a big hesitation to delve into church history…I guess I was afraid of the truth. Also, it occurs to me that I never really thought of Christianity on a global level until discarding my trinitarian views. This review explains a lot.

  4. on 06 Mar 2013 at 12:49 pmJas

    Did not realize the link was not the beginning of book .This book was written in 1851 by a woman named Mrs. Tamar Davis.

  5. on 07 Mar 2013 at 5:07 pmDoubting Thomas

    Great article Matt. Thanks for posting… 🙂

  6. on 28 Jan 2014 at 11:56 amJas

    Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries – The Second Century A.D.

    EARLY CHRISTIANS – 2nd Century
    “The primitive Christians had a great veneration for the Sabbath, and spent the day in devotion and sermons. And it is not to be doubted but they derived this practice from the Apostles themselves, as appears by several scriptures to the purpose.” “Dialogues on the Lord’s Day,” p. 189. London: 1701, By Dr. T.H. Morer (A Church of England divine).

    EARLY CHRISTIANS – 2nd Century
    “…The Sabbath was a strong tie which united them with the life of the whole people, and in keeping the Sabbath holy they followed not only the example but also the command of Jesus.” “Geschichte des Sonntags,” pp.13, 14

    EARLY CHRISTIANS – 2nd Century
    “The Gentile Christians observed also the Sabbath,” Gieseler’s “Church History,” Vol.1, ch. 2, par. 30, 93.

    EARLY CHRISTIANS – 2nd Century
    “The primitive Christians did keep the Sabbath of the Jews;…therefore the Christians, for a long time together, did keep their conventions upon the Sabbath, in which some portions of the law were read: and this continued till the time of the Laodicean council.” “The Whole Works” of Jeremy Taylor, Vol. IX,p. 416 (R. Heber’s Edition, Vol XII, p. 416).

    EARLY CHRISTIANS – 2nd Century
    “It is certain that the ancient Sabbath did remain and was observed (together with the celebration of the Lord’s day) by the Christians of the East Church, above three hundred years after our Saviour’s death.” “A Learned Treatise of the Sabbath,” p. 77

    Note: By the “Lord’s day” here the writer means Sunday and not the true Sabbath,” which the Bible says is the Sabbath. This quotation shows Sunday coming into use in the early centuries soon after the death of the Apostles. It illustrates the apostasy that Paul the Apostle foretold of when he spoke about a great “falling away” from the Truth that would take place soon after his death.

    “From the apostles’ time until the council of Laodicea, which was about the year 364, the holy observance of the Jews’ Sabbath continued, as may be proved out of many authors: yea, notwithstanding the decree of the council against it.” “Sunday a Sabbath.” John Ley, p.163. London: 1640.

    Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries – The Third Century A.D.

    “Except ye make the sabbath a real sabbath (sabbatize the Sabbath,” Greek), ye shall not see the Father.” “The oxyrhynchus Papyri,” pt,1, p.3, Logion 2, verso 4-11 (London Offices of the Egypt Exploration Fund, 1898).
    “Thou shalt observe the Sabbath, on account of Him who ceased from His work of creation, but ceased not from His work of providence: it is a rest for meditation of the law, not for idleness of the hands.” “The Anti-Nicene Fathers,” Vol 7,p. 413. From “Constitutions of the Holy Apostles,” a document of the 3rd and 4th Centuries.

    “After the festival of the unceasing sacrifice (the crucifixion) is put the second festival of the Sabbath, and it is fitting for whoever is righteous among the saints to keep also the festival of the Sabbath. There remaineth therefore a sabbatismus, that is, a keeping of the Sabbath, to the people of God (Hebrews 4:9).” “Homily on Numbers 23,” par.4, in Migne, “Patrologia Graeca,” Vol. 12,cols. 749, 750.

    As early as A.D. 225 there existed lallrge bishoprics or conferences of the Church of the East (Sabbath-keeping) stretching from Palestine to India. Mingana, “Early Spread of Christianity.” Vol.10, p. 460.

    The Kushan Dynasty of North India called a famous council of Buddhist priests at Vaisalia to bring uniformity among the Buddhist monks on the observance of their weekly Sabbath. Some had been so impressed by the writings of the Old Testament that they had begun to keep holy the Sabbath. Lloyd, “The Creed of Half Japan,” p. 23.

    “The seventh-day Sabbath was…solemnised by Christ, the Apostles, and primitive Christians, till the Laodicean Council did in manner quite abolish the observations of it.” “Dissertation on the Lord’s Day,” pp. 33, 34

    Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries – The Fourth Century A.D.

    “It was the practice generally of the Easterne Churches; and some churches of the west…For in the Church of Millaine (Milan);…it seems the Saturday was held in a farre esteeme… Not that the Easterne Churches, or any of the rest which observed that day, were inclined to Iudaisme (Judaism); but that they came together on the Sabbath day, to worship Iesus (Jesus) Christ the Lord of the Sabbath.” “History of the Sabbath” (original spelling retained), Part 2, par. 5, pp.73, 74. London: 1636. Dr. Heylyn.
    “The ancient Christians were very careful in the observance of Saturday, or the seventh day…It is plain that all the Oriental churches, and the greatest part of the world, observed the Sabbath as a festival…Athanasius likewise tells us that they held religious assembles on the Sabbath, not because they were infected with Judaism, but to worship Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath, Epiphanius says the same.” “Antiquities of the Christian Church,” Vol.II Book XX, chap. 3, sec.1, 66. 1137,1138.

    “In the last half of that century St. Ambrose of Milan stated officially that the Abyssinian bishop, Museus, had ‘traveled almost everywhere in the country of the Seres’ (China). For more than seventeen centuries the Abyssinian Church continued to sanctify Saturday as the holy day of the fourth commandment.” Ambrose, DeMoribus, Brachmanorium Opera Ominia, 1132, found in Migne, Patrologia Latima, Vol.17, pp.1131,1132.

    “Mingana proves that in 370 A.D. Abyssinian Christianity (a Sabbath keeping church) was so popular that its famous director, Musacus, travelled extensively in the East promoting the church in Arabia, Persia, India and China.” “Truth Triumphanat,”p.308 (Footnote 27).

    “Ambrose, the celebrated bishop of Milan, said that when he was in Milan he observed Saturday, but when in Rome observed Sunday. This gave rise to the proverb, ‘When you are in Rome, do as Rome does.'” Heylyn, “The History of the Sabbath” (1612)

    Canon 26 of the Council of Elvira reveals that the Church of Spain at that time kept Saturday, the seventh day. “As to fasting every Sabbath: Resolved, that the error be corrected of fasting every Sabbath.” This resolution of the council is in direct opposition to the policy the church at Rome had inaugurated, that of commanding Sabbath as a fast day in order to humiliate it and make it repugnant to the people.

    It is a point of further interest to note that in north-eastern Spain near the city of Barcelona is a city called Sabadell, in a district originaly inhabited. By a people called both “Valldenses” and Sabbatati.”

    The popular complaint against the Christians-“They despise our sungod, they have divine services on Saturday, they desecrate the sacred the earth by burying their dead in it.” Truth Triumphant,” p.170.

    “They despise our sun-god. Did not Zorcaster, the sainted founder of our divine beliefs, institute Sunday one thousand years ago in honour of the sun and supplant the Sabbath of the Old Testament. Yet these Christians have divine services on Saturday.” O’Leary, “The Syriac Church and Fathers,” pp.83, 84.

    “Canon 16-On Saturday the Gospels and other portions of the Scripture shall be read aloud.” “Canon 29-Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday, but shall work on that day; but the Lord’s day they shall especially honor, and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day.” Hefele’s “Councils,” Vol. 2, b. 6.

    Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries – The Fifth Century A.D.

    “For although almost all churches throughout the world celebrated the sacred mysteries (the Lord’s Supper) on the Sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Allexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, refuse to do this.” The footnote which accompanies the foregoing quotation explains the use of the word “Sabbath.” It says: “That is, upon the Saturday. It should be observed, that Sunday is never called “the Sabbath’ by the ancient Fathers and historians.” Sacrates, “Ecclestical History,” Book 5, chap. 22, p. 289.
    “The people of Constantinople, and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week, which custom is never observed at Rome or at Alexandria.” Socrates, “Ecclesiastical History,” Book 7, chap.19.

    Augustine shows here that the Sabbath was observed in his day “in the greater part of the Christian world,” and his testimony in this respect is all the more valuable because he himself was an earnest and consistent Sunday-keeper. See “Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers,” 1st Series, Vol.1, pp. 353, 354.

    POPE INNOCENT (402-417)
    Pope Sylvester (314-335) was the first to order the churches to fast on Saturday, and Pope Innocent (402-417) made it a binding law in the churches that obeyed him, (In order to bring the Sabbath into disfavour.) “Innocentius did ordain the Saturday or Sabbath to be always fasted.” Dr. Peter Heylyn, “History of the Sabbath, Part 2, p. 44.

    Down even to the fifth century the observance of the Jewish Sabbath was continued in the Christian church. “Ancient Christianity Exemplified,” Lyman Coleman, ch. 26, sec. 2, p. 527.

    In Jerome’s day (420 A.D.) the devoutest Christians did ordinary work on Sunday. “Treatise of the Sabbath Day,” by Dr. White, Lord Bishop of Ely, p. 219.

    “Wherefore, except Vespers and Nocturns, there are no public services among them in the day except on Saturday (Sabbath) and Sunday.” John Cassian, A French monk, “Institutes,” Book 3, ch. 2.

    “Augustine deplored the fact that in two neighbouring churches in Africa one observes the seventh-day Sabbath, another fasted on it.” Dr. Peter Heylyn, “The History of the Sabbath.” p. 416.

    SPAIN (400 A.D.)
    “Ambrose sanctified the seventh day as the Sabbath (as he himself says). Ambrose had great influence in Spain, which was also observing the Saturday Sabbath.” Truth Triumphant, p. 68.

    “It is a fact that it was formerly the custom in the East to keep the Sabbath in the same manner as the Lord’s day and to hold sacred assemblies: while on the other hand, the people of the West, contending for the Lord’s day have neglected the celebration of the Sabbath.” “Apollinaries Sidonli Epistolae,” lib.1, 2; Migne, 57.

    “Mingana proves that in 410 Isaac, supreme director of the Church of the East, held a world council,-stimulated, some think, by the trip of Musacus,-attended by eastern delegates from forty grand metrop olitan divisions. In 411 he appointed a metropolitan director for China. These churches were sanctifying the seventh day.”

    “There are several cities and villages in Egypt where, contrary to the usage established elsewhere, the people meet together on Sabbath evenings, and, although they have dined previously, partake of the mysteries.” Sozomen. “Ecclesiastical History Book 7, ch. 119

    Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries – The Sixth Century A.D.

    “In this latter instance they seemed to have followed a custom of which we find traces in the early monastic church of Ireland by which they held Saturday to be the Sabbath on which they rested from all their labours.” W.T. Skene, “Adamnan Llife of St. Columbs” 1874, p.96.
    “We seem to see here an allusion to the custom, observed in the early monastic Church of Ireland, of keeping the day of rest on Saturday, or the Sabbath.” “History of the Catholic Church in Scotland,” Vol.1, p. 86, by Catholic histsorian Bellesheim.

    “Having continued his labours in Scotland thirty-four years, he clearly and openly foretold his death, and on Saturday, the month of June, said to his disciple Diermit: “This day is calleld the Sabbath, that is the rest day, and such will it truly be to me; for it will put an end to my labours.'” “Butler’s Lives of the Saints,” Vol.1, A.D. 597, art. “St. Columba” p. 762

    The editor of the best biography of Colulmba says in a footnote: “Our Saturday. The custom to call the Lord’s day Sabbath did not commence until a thousand years later.” Adamnan’s “Life of Columba” (Dublin, 1857), p. 230.

    Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries – The Seventh Century A.D.

    Professor James C. Moffatt, D.D., Professor of Church History at Princeton, says: It seems to have been customary in the Celtic churches of early times, in Ireland as well as Scotland, to keep Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath, as a day of rest from labour. They obeyed the fourth commandment literally upon the seventh day of week.” “The Church in Scotland,” p.140.

    “The Celts used a Latin Bible unlike the Vulgate (R.C.) and kept Saturday as a day of rest, with special religious services on Sunday.” Flick, “The Rise of Mediaeval Church,” p. 237

    Gregory I (A.D. 590-640) wrote against “Roman citizens (who) forbid any work being done on the Sabbath day.” “Nicene and Post- Nicene Fathers,” Second Series, Vol, XIII, p.13, epist. 1

    ROME (POPE GREGORY I,A.D.590 TO 604)
    “Gregory, bishop by the grace of God to his well-beloved sons, the Roman citizens: It has come to me that certain men of perverse spirit have disseminated among you things depraved and opposed to the holy faith, so that they forbid anything to be done on the day of the Sabbath. What shall I call them except preachers of anti-Christ?” Epistles, b.13:1

    Declared that when anti-Christ should come he would keep Saturday as the Sabbath. “Epistles of Gregory I, “b 13, epist.1. found in “Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers.”

    “Moreover, this same Pope Gregory had issued an official pronouncement against a section of the city of Rome itself because the Christian believers there rested and worshipped on the Sabbath.” “Epistles of Gregory I, “b 13, epist.1. found in “Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers.”

    Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries – The Eighth Century A.D.

    “We command all Christians to observe the Lord’s day to be held not in honour of the past Sabbath, but on account of that holy night of the first of the week called the Lord’s day. When speaking of that Sabbath which the Jews observe, the last day of the week, and which also our peasants observe..” Mansi, 13, 851
    “The hills of Persia and the valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates reechoed their songs of praise. They reaped their harvests and paid their tithes. They repaired to their churches on the Sabbath day for the worship of God.” “Realencyclopaedie fur Protestatische and Krche,” art. “Nestorianer”; also Yule, “The Book of ser Marco Polo,” Vol.2, p.409.

    “Widespread and enduring was the observance of the seventh-day Sabbath among the believers of the Church of the East and the St. Thomas Christians of India, who never were connected with Rome. It also was maintained among those bodies which broke off from Rome after the Council of Chalcedon namely, the Abyssinians, the Jacobites, the Maronites, and the Armenians,” Schaff-Herzog, The New Enclopadia of Religious Knowledge,” art. “Nestorians”; also Realencyclopaedie fur Protestantische Theologie und Kirche,” art. “Nestorianer.”

    “The third allocution of this council warns against the observance of the Sabbath, referring to the decree of the council of Laodicea.” Dr. Hefele, Counciliengfesch, 3, 512, sec. 362

    In A.D. 781 the famous China Monument was inscribed in marble to tell of the growth of Christianity in China at that time. The inscription, consisting of 763 words, was unearthed in 1625 near the city of Changan and now stands in the “Forest of Tablets,” Changan. The following extract from the stone shows that the Sabbath was observed:

    “On the seventh day we offer sacrifices, after having purified our hearts, and received absolution for our sins. This religion, so perfect and so excellent, is difficult to name, but it enlightens darkness by its brilliant precepts.” Christianity in China, M. I’Abbe Huc, Vol. I, ch.2, pp. 48, 49

    Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries – The Ninth Century A.D.

    “Bulgaria in the early season of its evangelization had been taught that no work should be performed on the Sabbath.” Responsa Nicolai Papae I and Con-Consulta Bulllllgarorum, Responsum 10, found in Mansi, Sacrorum Concilorum Nova et Amplissima Colectio, Vol.15; p. 406; also Hefele, Conciliengeschicte, Vol.4, sec. 478
    (Pope Nicholas I, in answer to letter from Bogaris, ruling prince of Bulgaria.) “Ques. 6-Bathing is allowed on Sunday. Ques. 10-One is to cease from work on Sunday, but not also on the Sabbath.” Hefele, 4,346- 352, sec. 478

    The Bulgarians had been accustomed to rest on the Sabbath. Pope Nicholas writes against this practice.

    (Photuus, Patriarch of Constantinople {in counter- synod that deposed Nicolas}, thus accused Papacy). Against the canons, they induced the Bulgarians to fast on the Sabbath.” Photius, vonKard, Hergenrother, 1, 643

    Note: The Papacy had always tried to bring the seventh-day Sabbath into disrepute by insisting that all should fast on that day. In this manner (she sought to turn people towards Sunday, the first day, the day that Rome had adopted.

    Cardinal Hergenrother says that they stood in intimate relation with Emperor Michael II (821-829) and testifies that they observed the Sabbath. Kirchengeschichte, 1, 527

    “Widespread and enduring was the observance of the seventh-day Sabbath among the believers of the Church of the East and the St. Thomas Christians of India. It was also maintained by the Abyssinians.

    “Pope Nicholas I, in the ninth century, sent the ruling prince of Bulgaria a long document saying in it that one is to cease from work on Sunday, but not on the Sabbath. The head of the Greek Church, offended at the interference of the Papacy, declared the Pope ex-communicated.” Truth Triumphant, p. 232

    Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries – The Tenth Century A.D.

    “They worked on Sunday, but kept Saturday in a Sabbatical manner.” A history of Scotland from the Roman Occupation, Vol. I, p.96. Andrew Lang
    CHURCH OF THE EAST-Kurdistan
    “The Nestorians eat no pork and keep the Sabbath. They believe in neither auricular confession nor purgatory.” Schaff-Herzog, “The New Encyclopaedia of Religious Knowledge,” art. “Nestorians.”

    “And because they observed no other day of rest but the Sabbath days, they called them Insabathas, as much as to say, as they observed no Sabbath.” Luther’s “Fore-Runners” (original spelling), PP. 7, 8

    Roman Catholic writers try to evade the apostolic origin of the Waldenses, so as to make it appear that the Roman is the only apostolic church, and that all others are later novelties. And for this reason they try to make out that the Waldenses originated with Peter Waldo of the twelfth century. Dr. Peter Allix says:

    “Some Protestants, on this occasion, have fallen into the snare that was set for them…It is absolutely false, that these churches were ever found by Peter Waldo…it is a pure forgery.” Ancient Church of Piedmont, pp.192, Oxford: 1821

    “It is not true, that Waldo gave this name to the inhabitants of the valleys: they wewre called Waldenses, or Vaudes, before his time, from the valleys in which they dwelt.” “Id., p. 182

    On the other hand, he “was called Valdus, or Waldo, because he received his religious notions from the inhabitants of the valleys.” History of the Christian Church, William Jones, Vol II, p.2

    Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries – The Eleventh Century A.D.

    They held that Saturday was properly the Sabbath on which they abstained from work. “Celtic Scotland,” Vol. 2, p. 350
    “They worked on Sunday, but kept Saturday in a sabbatical manner…These things Margaret abolished.” A History of Scotland from the Roman Occupation,” Vol.1, p. 96.

    “It was another custom of theirs to neglect the reverence due to the Lord’s day, by devoting themselves to every kind of worldly business upon it, just as they did upon other days. That this was contrary to the law, she (Queen Margaret) proved to them as well by reason as by authority. ‘Let us venerate the Lord’s day,’ said she, ‘because of the resurrection of our Lord, which happened upon that day, and let us no longer do servile works upon it; bearing in mind that upon this day we were redeemed from the slavery of the devil. The blessed Pope Gregory affirms the same.'” Life of Saint Margaret, Turgot, p. 49 (British Museum Library)

    (Historian Skene commenting upon the work of Queen Margaret) “Her next point was that they did not duly reverence the Lord’s day, but in this latter instance they seemed to have followed a custom of which we find traces in the early Church of Ireland, by which they held Saturday to be the Sabbath on which they rested from all their labours.” Skene, “Celtic Scotland,” Vol.2, p. 349

    “T. Ratcliffe Barnett, in his book on the fervent Catholic queen of Scotland who in 1060 was first to attempt the ruin of Columba’s brethren, writes: ‘In this matter the Scots had perhaps kept up the traditional usage of the ancient Irish Church which observed Saturday instead of Sunday as the day of rest.'” Barnett, “Margaret of Scotland: Queen and Saint,” p.97

    “During the first crusade, Pope Urban II decreed at the council of Clermont (A.D.1095) that the Sabbath be set aside in honour of the Virgin Mary.” History of the Sabbath, p.672

    “Because you observe the Sabbath with the Jews and the Lord’s Day with us, you seem to imitate with such observance the sect of Nazarenes.” Migne, “Patrologia Latina,” Vol. 145, p.506; also Hergenroether, “Photius,” Vol. 3, p.746. (The Nazarenes were a Christian denomination.)

    “The observance of Saturday is, as everyone knows, the subject of a bitter dispute between the Greeks and the Latins.” Neale, “A History of the Holy Eastern Church,” Vol 1, p. 731. (Referring to the separation of the Greek Church from the Latin in 1054)

    Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries – The Twelveth Century A.D.

    “Traces of Sabbath-keepers are found in the times of Gregory I, Gregory VII, and in the twelfth century in Lombardy.” Strong’s Cyclopaedia, 1, 660
    “Robinson gives an account of some of the Waldenses of the Alps, who were called Sabbati, Sabbatati, Insabbatati, but more frequently Inzabbatati. “One says they were so named from the Hebrew word Sabbath, because they kept the Saturday for the Lord’s day.'” General History of the Baptist Denomination, Vol.II, P. 413

    SPAIN (Alphonse of Aragon)
    “Alphonse, king of Aragon, etc., to all archbishopss, bishops and to all others…’We command y;ou that heretics, to wit, Waldenses and Insabbathi, should be expelled away from the face of God and from all Catholics and ordered to depart from our kingdom.'” Marianse, Praefatio in Lucam Tudensem, found in “Macima Gibliotheca Veterum Patrum,” Vol.25, p.190

    HUNGARY FRANCE, ENGLAND, ITALY, GERMANY. (Referring to the Sabbath- keeping Pasagini) “The spread of heresy at this time is almost incredible. From Gulgaria to the Ebro, from nothern France to the Tiber, everywhere we meet them. Whole countries are infested, like Hungary and southern France; they abound in many other countries, in Germany, in Italy, in the Netherlands and even in England they put forth their efforts.” Dr. Hahn, “Gesch. der Ketzer.” 1, 13, 14

    “Among the documents. we have by the same peoples, an explanation of the Ten Commandments dated by Boyer 1120. Observance of the Sabbath by ceasing from worldly labours, is enjoined.” Blair, History of the Waldenses, Vol.1, p. 220

    “There is much evidence that the Sabbath prevailed in Wales university until A.D.1115, when the first Roman bishop was seated at St. David’s. The old Welslh Sabbath-keeping churches did not even then altogether bow the knee to Rome, but fled to their hiding places.” Lewis, “Seventh Day Baptists in Europe and America,” Vol.1, p.29

    “For twenty years Peter de Bruys stirred southern France. He especialy emphasised a day of worship that was recognized at that time amaong the Celtic churches of the British Isles, among the Paulicians, and in the great Church of the East namely, the the seventh day of the fourth commandment.”

    The papal author, Bonacursus, wrote the following against the “Pasagaini”: “Not a few, but many know what are the errors of those who are called Pasaagini…First, they teach that we should obey the Sabbath. Furthermore, to increase their error, they condemn and reject all the church Fathers, and the whole Roman Church.” D’Achery, Spicilegium I,f.211-214; Muratory, Antiq. med. aevi.5, f.152, Hahn, 3, 209

    Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries – The Thirteenth Century A.D.

    “They say that the blessed Pope Sylvester was the Antichrist of whom mention is made in the Epistles of SSt. Paul as having been the son of perdition.[They also say] that the keeping of the Sabbath ought to take place.” Ecclesiastical History of the Ancient Churches ofPiedmont,” p.169 (by prominent Roman Cathholic author writing about Waldenses)
    FRANCE (Waldenses)
    To destroy completely these heretics Pope Innocent III sent Dominican inquistors into France, and also crusaders, promising “a plenary remission of all sins, to those who took on them the crusade…against the albigenses.” Catholic Encyclopaedia, Vol.XII, art.”Raymond VI,” p. 670

    “The inquisitors…[declare] that the sign of a Vaudois, deemed worthy of death, was that he followed Christ and sought to obey the commandments fo God.” History of the Inquisition of the Middle Ages,” H.C.Les, vol.1

    Thousands of God’s people were tortured to death by the Inquisition, buried alive, burned to death, or hacked to pieces by the crusaders. While devastating the city of Biterre the soldiers asked the Catholic leaders how they should know who were heretics; “Slay them all, for the Lord knows who is His.” History of the Inquisition, pp.96

    Published the statute “Cupientes” in which he charges himself to clear southern France from heretics as the Sabbath-keepers were called.

    “The heresy of the Vaudois, or poor people of Lyons, is of great antiquity, for some say that it has been continued down ever since the time of Pope Sylvester; and others, ever since that of the apostles.” The Roman Inquisitor, Reinerus Sacho, writing about 1230

    FRANCE-Council Toulouse, 1229
    Canons against Sabbath-keepers: “Canon 3.-The lords of the different districts shall have the villas, houses and woods diligently searched, and the hiding-places of the heretics destroyed.

    “Canon 14-Lay members are not allowed to possess the books of either the Old or the New Testaments.” Hefele, 5, 931, 962

    “The Paulicians, Petrobusinas, Passaginians, Waldenses, Insabbatati were great Sabbath-keeping bodies of Europe down to 1250 A.D.”

    Dr. Hahn says that if the Pasaginians referred to the 4th Commandment to support the Sabbath, the Roman priests answered, “The Sabbath symbolised the eternal rest of the saints.”

    “The Mongolian conquest did not injure the Church of the East. (Sabbath-keeping.) On the contrary, a number of the Mongolian princes and a larger number of Mongolian queens were members of this church.”

    Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries – The Fourteenth Century A.D.

    “That we are to worship one only God, who is able to help us, and not the Saints departed; that we ought to keep holy the Sabbath day.” Luther’s Fore-runners,” p. 38
    “For centuries evangelical bodies, especially the Waldenses, were called Insabbati because of Sabbath-keeping.” Gui, Manueld’ Inquisiteur

    BOHEMIA, 1310 (Modern Czechoslovakia)
    “In 1310, two hundred years before Luther’s theses, the Bohemian brethern constituted onefourth of the population of Bohemia, and that they were in touch with the Waldenses who abounded in Austria, Lombardy,. Bohemia, north Germany, Thuringia, Brandenburg, and Moravia. Erasmus pointed out how strictly Bohemian Waldenses kept the seventh day Sabbath.” Armitage, “A History of the Baptists,” p.313; Cox, “The Literature of the Sabbath Question,” vol. 2, pp. 201-202

    Then, too, in the “Catechism” that was used during the fourteenth century, the Sabbath commandment read thus; “Thou shalt not forget to keep the seventh day.” This is quoted from “Documents and Studies Concerning the History of the Lutheran Catechism in the Nordish Churches,” p.89. Christiania 1893

    “Also the priests have caused the people to keep Saturdays as Sundays.” Theological Periodicals for the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Norway, Vol.1, p.184 Oslo

    “We wrote of the Sabbatarians in Bohemia, Transylvania, England and Holland between 1250 and 1600 A.D.” Truth Triumphant, Wilkinson, p.309

    Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries – The Fifteenth Century A.D.

    “Erasmus testifies that even as late as about 1500 these Bohemians not only kept the seventh day scrupulously, but also were called Sabbatarians.” Cox, “The Literature of the Sabbath Question,” Vol.2, pp.201, 202 “Truth Triumphant,” p.264
    (Church Council held at Bergin, August 22,1435) “The first matter concerned a keeping holy of Saturday. It had come to the earth of the archbishop that people in different places of the kingdom had ventured the keeping holy of Saturday. It is strictly forbidden-it is stated-in the Church Law, for any one to keep or to adopt holy-days, outside of those which the pope, archbishop, or bishops appoint.” The History of the Norwegian Church under Catholicism, R. Keyser, Vol.II, p. 488.Oslo: 1858

    NORWAY, 1435 (Catholic Provincial Council at Bergin) “We are informed that some people in different districts of the kingdom, have adopted and observed Saturday-keeping. It is severely forbidden-in holy church canon-one and all to observe days excepting those which the holy Pope archbishop, or the bishops command. Saturday-keeping must under no circumstances be permitted hereafter further than the church canon commands. Therfore, we counsil all the friends of God throughout all Norway who want to be obedient towards the holy church to let this evil of Saturday- keeping alone; and the rest we forbid under penalty of sever church punishment to keep Saturday holy.” Dip. Norveg., 7, 397

    NORWAY, 1436
    (Church Conference at Oslo) “It is forbidden under the same penalty to keep Saturday holy by refraining from labour.” History of the Norwegian Church, p.401

    FRANCE – Waldenses
    “Louis XII, King of France (1498-1515), being informed by the enemies of the Waldense inhabiting a part of the province of Province, that several heinous crimes were laid to their account, sent the Master of Requests, and a certain doctor of the Sorbonne, to make inquiry into this matter. On their return they reported that they had visited all the parishes, but could not discover any traces of those crimes with which they were charged. On the contrary, they kept the Sabbath day, observed the ordinance of baptism, according to the primitive church, instructed their children in the articles of the Christian faith, and the commandmnets of God. The King having heard the report of his commisioners, said with an oath that they were better men than himself or his people.” History of the Christian Church, Vol.II, pp. 71, 72, third edition. London: 1818

    “Separated from the Western world for a thousand years, they were naturally ignorant of many novelties introduced by the councils and decrees of the Lateran. ‘We are Christians, and not idolaters,’ was their expressive reply when required to do homage to the image of the Virgin Mary.'”

    Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries – The Sixteenth Century A.D.

    “In the reign of Elizabeth, it occurred to many conscientious and independent thinkers (as it previously had done to some Protestants in Bohemia) that the fourth commandment required of them the observance, not of the first, but of the specified ‘seventh’ day of the week.” Chambers’ Cyclopaedia, article “Sabbath,” Vol. 8, p. 462, 1537
    RUSSIA (Council, Noscow, 1593)
    “The accused [Sabbath-keepers] were summoned; they openly acknowledged the new faith, and defended the same. The most eminent of them, the secretary of state, Kuritzyn, Ivan Maximow, Kassian, archimandrite of the Fury Monastery of Novgorod, were condemned to death, and burned publicly in cages, at Moscow; Dec. 17,1503.” H.Sternberfi, “Geschichte der Juden” (Leipsig, 1873), pp.117-122

    “This zeal for Saturday-keeping continued for a long time: even little things which might strengthen the practice of keeping Saturday were punished.” Bishop Anjou, “Svenska Kirkans Historia after Motetthiers, Upsala

    (estates in Austria, Bohemia, Morovia, Hungary. Lichenstein in the Rhine Valley wasn’t their country until the end of the 7th century). “The Sabbatarians teach that the outward Sabbath, i.e. Saturday, still must be observed, They say that Sunday is the Pope’s invention.” Refutation of Sabbath, by Wolfgang Capito, published 1599

    BOHEMIA (the Bohemian Brethren)
    Dr. R. Cox says: “I find from a passage in Erasmus that at the early period of the Reformantion when he wrote, there were Sabbatarians in Bohemia, who not only kept the seventh day, but were said to be…scrupulous in resting on it.” Literature of the Sabbath Question, Cox, Vol. II, pp. 201, 202

    “Sabbatarians, so called because they reject the observance of the Lord’s day as not commanded in Scripture, they consider the Sabbath alone to be holy, as God rested on that day and commanded to keep it holy and to rest on it.” A. Ross

    -Dr. Esk (while refuting the Reformers) “However, the church has transferred the observance from Saturday to Sunday by virtue of her own power, without Scripture.” Dr. Esk’s “Enchiridion,” 1533, pp.78,79

    About the hear 1520 many of these Sabbath-keepers found shelter on the estate of Lord Leonhardt of Lichtensein held to the observance of the true Sabbath.” J.N.Andrews, History of the Sabbath, p. 649, ed.

    “The famous Jesuit, Francis Xavier, called for the Inquisition, which was set up in Goa, India, in 1560, to check the ‘Jewish wickedness’ (Sabbath-keeping).” Adeney, “The Greek and Eastern Churches,” p.527, 528

    “Some of you, contrary to the warning, keep Saturday. You ought to be severely punished. Whoever shall be found keeping Saturday, must pay a fine of ten marks.” History of King Christian the Third,” Niels Krag and S. Stephanius

    “Sabatarians now exist in Austria.” Luther, “Lectures on Genesis,” A.D.1523-27

    ABYSSINIA–A.D. 1534
    (Abyssinian legate at court of Lisbon) “It is not therefore, in imitation of the Jews, but in obedience to Christ and His holy apostles, that we observe the day.” Gedde’s “Church History of Ethiopia,” pp. 87,8

    “God blessed the Sabbath and sanctified it to Himself. God willedl that this command concerning the Sabbath should remain. He willed that on the seventh day the word should be preached.” Commentary on Genesis, Vol.1, pp.138-140

    “Some have suffered torture because they would not rest when others kept Sunday, for they declared it to be the holiday and law of Antichrist.” Sebastian Frank (A.D. 1536)

    FINLAND-Dec. 6,1554
    (King Gustavus Vasa I, of Sweden’s letter to the people of Finland) “Some time ago we heard that some people in Finland had fallen into a great error and observed the seventh day, called Saturday.” State Library at Helsingfors, Reichsregister, Vom J., 1554, Teil B.B. leaf 1120, pp.175-180a

    “The observance of the Sabbath is a part of the moral law. It has been kept hholy since the beginning of the world.” Ref. Noted Swiss writer, R Hospinian, 1592

    Barbara of Thiers, who was executed in 1529, declared: “God has commanded us to rest on the seventh day.” Another martyr, Christina Tolingerin, is mentioned thus: “Concerning holy days and Sundays, she said: ‘In six days the Lord made the world, on the seventh day he rested. The other holy days have been instituted by popes, cardinals, and archbishops.'” Martyrology of the Churches of Christ, commonly called Baptists, during the era of the Reformation, from the Dutch of T.J. Van Bright, London, 1850,1, pp.113-4.

    Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries – The Seventeenth Century A.D.

    “At last for teaching only five days in the week, and resting upon Saturday she was carried to the new prison in Maiden Lane, a place then appointed for the restraint of several other persons of different opinions from the Church of England. Mrs. Traske lay fifteen or sixteen years a prisoner for her opinion about the Saturday Sabbath.” Pagitt’s “Heresiography.” p.196

    “Here in England are about nine or ten churches that keep the Sabbath, besides many scattered disciples, who have eminently preserved.” Stennet’s letters, 1668 and 1670. Cox, Sab.,1, 268

    “But as they rejected Sunday and rested on the Sabbath, Prince Sigmond Bathory ordered their persecution. Pechi advanced to position of chancellor of state and next in line to throne of Transylvania. He studied his Bible, and composed a number of hymns, mostly in honour of the Sabbath. Pechi was arrested and died in 1640.

    “We can trace these opinions over almost the whole extent of Sweden of that day-from Finland and northern Sweden. “In the district of Upsala the farmers kept Saturday in place of Sunday. “About the year 1625 this religious tendency became so pronounced in these countries that not only large numbers of the common people began to keep Saturday as the rest day, but even many priests did the same.” History of the Swedish Church, Vol.I, p.256

    “They solemnize Saturday (the old Sabbath). Samuel Purchase- “His Pilgrims.” Vol. I, p. 350

    INDIA (Jacobites)-1625
    “They kept Saturday holy. They have solemn service on Saturdays.” Pilgrimmes, Part 2, p.1269

    “Stephen Mumford, the first Sabbath-keeper in America come from London in 1664.” History of the Seventh-day Baptist Gen. Conf. by Jas. Bailey, pp. 237, 238

    AMERICA-1671 (Seventh-day Baptists)
    “Broke from Baptist Church in order to keep Sabbath.” See Bailey’s History, pp. 9,10

    Charles I,1647 (when querying the Parliament Commissioners) “For it will not be found in Scripture where Saturday is no longer to be kept, or turned into the Sunday wherefore it must be the Church’s authority that changed the one and instituted the other.” Cox, “Sabbath Laws,” p.333

    ENGLAND-John Milton
    “It will surely be far safer to observe the seventh day, according to express commandment of God, than on the authority of mere human conjecture to adopt the first.” Sab. Lit. 2, 46-54

    “Upon the publication of the ‘Book of Sports’ in 1618 a violent controversy arose among English divines on two points: first, whether the Sabbath of the fourth commandment was in force; and, secondly, on what ground the first day of the week was entitled to be observed as ‘the Sabbath.'” Haydn’s Dictionary of Dates, art. “Sabbatarians.” p.602

    Jesuits tried to induce the Abyssinian church to accept Roman Catholicism. They influenced King Zadenghel to propose to submit to the Papacy (A.D.1604). “Prohibiting all his subjects, upon severe penalties, to observe Saturday any longer.” Gedde’s “Church History of Ethiopia.” p.311, also Gibbon’s “Decline and Fall,” ch. 47

    “one of the counsellors and lords of the court was John Gerendi, head of the Sabbatarians, a people who did not keep Sunday, but Saturday.” Lamy, “The History of Socinianism.” p. 60

    The inscription on the monument over the grave of Dr. Peter Chamberlain, physician to King James and Queen Anne, King Charles I and Queen Katherine says that Dr. Chamberlain was “a Christian keeping the commandment of God and the faith of Jesus, being baptised about the year 1648, and keeping the seventh day for the Sabbath above thirty-two years.”

    Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries – The Eighteenth Century A.D.

    “The Jacobites assembled on the Sabbath day, before the Domical day, in the temple, and kept that day, as do also the Abyssinians as we have seen from the confession of their faith by the Ethiopian king Claudius.” Abundacnus, ‘Historia Jacobatarum,”p.118-9 (18th Century)
    RUMANIA, 1760 (and what is today) YUGOSLAVIA, CZECHOSLOVAKIA
    “Joseph II’s edict of tolerance did not apply to the Sabbatarians, some of whom again lost all of their possessions.” Jahrgang 2, 254

    “Catholic priests aided by soldiers forcing them to accept Romanism nominally, and compelling the remainder to labour on the Sabbath and to attend church on Sunday,-these were the methods employed for two hundred fifty years to turn the Sabbatarians.

    GERMANY-Tennhardt of Nuremberg
    “He holds strictly to the doctrine of the Sabbath, because it is one of the ten commandments.” Bengel’s “Leban und Wirken,” Burk, p.579

    He himself says: “It cannot be shown that Sunday has taken the place of the Sabbath (P.366). the Lord God has sanctified the last day of the week. Antichrist, on the other hand, has appointed the first day of the week.” Ki Auszug aus Tennhardt’s “Schriften,” P.49 (printed 1712)

    BOHEMIA AND MORAVIA (Today Czechoslovakia).
    Their history from 1635 to 1867 is thus described by Adolf Dux: “The condition of the Sabbatarians was dreadful. Their books and writings had to be delivered to the Karlsburg Consistory to becomes the spoils of flames.” Aus Ungarn, pp. 289-291. Leipzig, 1850

    “Dr. Cornelius stated of East Friesland, that when Baptists were numerous, “Sunday and holidays were not observed,” (they were Sabbath-keepers). Der Anteil Ostfrieslands and Ref. Muenster,” 1852, pp l29, 34

    MORAVIA-Count Zinzendorf
    In 1738 Zinzendorf wrote of his keeping the Sabbath thus: “That I have employed the Sabbath for rest many years already, and our Sunday for the proclamation of the gospel.” Budingsche Sammlung, Sec. 8, p. 224. Leipzig, 1742

    AMERICA, 1741
    -Moravian Brethren (after Zinzendorf arrived from Europe). “As a special instance it deserves to be noticed that he is resolved with the church at Bethlehem to observe the seventh day as rest day. Id., pp. 5, 1421, 1422

    But before Zinzendorf and the Moravians at Bethlehem thus began the observance of the Sabbath and prospered, there was a small body of German Sabbath-keepers in Pennsylvania. See Rupp’s “History of Religious Denominations in the United States,” pp.109- 123

  7. on 28 Jan 2014 at 5:21 pmRay

    Thank you for the book review Matt. I found it very interesting.
    I just ordered the book.

  8. on 28 Jan 2014 at 8:33 pmRay

    I’m wondering if these churches of Asia were mostly Jews who were scattered all over, or if most of these churches in Asia were Gentiles, or if it was about 50/50.

  9. on 28 Jan 2014 at 8:38 pmJas

    They were the children of God, neither greek (lost sheep) nor Jew nor heathen gentile

  10. on 29 Jan 2014 at 6:38 amRay

    I wonder if many of those churches in Asia were founded or run by those who were children of Abraham, who kept to Jewish traditions, keeping the feasts, and days, and such, and if they considered themselves Jews who believed in Jesus.

  11. on 29 Jan 2014 at 9:42 amJas

    Yes the majority were children of Abraham who were scattered amongst the nations during the exiles of 722bc(Israel) and 586bc(Judah) known in Jesus’ day as the lost sheep of Israel. But as prophesied some were out of the heathen gentiles. No not none of them would consider themselves Jews unless they came from the tribe of Judah which would have been revealed to them by spirit because they were to lose their identity during exile.

  12. on 29 Jan 2014 at 10:05 amRay

    Thank you Jas. I think I would consider them to be believing Jews, especially if they held to the feasts, days, customs and such. Born again Jews, members of the body of Christ.

    I wonder how many Gentiles would have came in during the years called the thousand year golden age. I wonder what the percentage would be, of those of Jewish background, compared to Gentile.

  13. on 29 Jan 2014 at 10:26 amJas

    A Jew from the tribe of Judah or Benjamin can be called an Israelite but the other 10 tribes of Israel are not Jews and never were. The the feasts, days, customs are not Jewish ,they are Israel’s as a whole. None of the exiles knew their background unless it was revealed to them by spirit.

  14. on 29 Jan 2014 at 8:24 pmRay

    Jas, I will go with my English dictionary, thank you.

  15. on 29 Jan 2014 at 8:53 pmJas

    It has nothing to do with dictionary ,it is about the true history and the real names God gave them. Calling Israelites Jews is like calling you by your brothers name instead of the name given you by your parents

  16. on 29 Jan 2014 at 9:34 pmJas

    “Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,”
    Maybe Jeremiah and Paul did not have your english dictionary . Do you know that these were 2 separate nations who actually fought wars against eachother? Had their own Kings? Were sent into exile over a hundred years apart?

  17. on 30 Jan 2014 at 9:20 amRay

    Jas, sure I know there were two nations Israel, and Judah, and that they fought, had their own kings and all. That’s nothing new to me.

    I’m also aware of men who try to put everyone under their own rules, doctrines, and beliefs, while the truth is so much bigger.

  18. on 30 Jan 2014 at 9:35 amRay

    I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, Paul wrote, for it is the power of God unto salvation, to everyone that believeth, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

    So in your opinion, was Paul saying that salvation only pertains to two groups of people here, Greeks, and those of Judah? What about those of Israel?

    Or, are you saying that Israel is all part of those known as the Greek?

  19. on 30 Jan 2014 at 10:09 amJas

    First you must understand what salvation means in that verse. Heathen gentiles were not in need of redemption ,were never promised to be restored by being offered a new covenant of grace,were never divorced by God. But were in need of only being forgiven the sin of Adam which alienated all mankind from God’s presence which was done when Jesus was perfectly sinless in his generation. No not all greeks were The lost sheep nor the nations where Israel was scattered amongst. But God promised he would gather the exiles and offer them a new covenant. Heathen gentiles always had the opportunity to enter this covenant in OT and NT just needed to be taught about it which was suppose to have been done by Israel which is one of the reasons God was angry with them. As you have been shown by history the true church was in the wilderness I just wish people would be more honest in what they believed. I have seen sabbatarians leave out the fact they were unitarian .

  20. on 30 Jan 2014 at 6:40 pmRay

    Jas, Every person who ever was born of a woman in this world, except for Jesus, had to be redeemed from sin, for all have fallen short of the glory of God except for Jesus, who was made the payment for sin.

    Once again, you are a barbarian unto me and I must be one to you.

  21. on 30 Jan 2014 at 7:04 pmJas

    No I have heard what you are saying from thousands. The fact is the heathen gentiles were never given any laws from God therefor could not sin against them. They were blameless in their acts. Jesus was made payment for Israel’s sins so they could be forgiven and come back to their God plus redeemed all mankind from the sin of Adam who broke the law given him by God.

  22. on 31 Jan 2014 at 7:40 amJaco

    Jas, some comments do not demand a response… Some commenters don’t either. Spare yourself the frustration.

  23. on 31 Jan 2014 at 12:13 pmJas

    I feel all comments and commentary are valuable to likeminded views by providing a personal reflection of their belief and how they maintain it. It could cause some to rethink and possibly promote them to actually research to see if what they have been taught has any truth to it.

  24. on 01 Feb 2014 at 5:47 amRay

    Jas, I suggest you study the Bible which teaches us that sin is sin whether or not someone has received the law or not, and that all men everywhere are commanded to repent, because all men have violated the laws of God.

    Sin is always a violation of the law which was given to Israel.

    No one can truthfully say, “I have not sinned because I was ignorant of such a commandment of God.” , when in fact they have indeed sinned.

  25. on 01 Feb 2014 at 9:40 amJas

    Since the bible and other religions have defined what is sin in the modern word I would say no one is blameless but in antiquity many groups had no idea what was even considered sin. You can not violate a command you did not receive therefore the heathen gentiles were not in need of redemption from personal sin. While sinful acts were in the world before the law, they were not accounted as sin.

  26. on 01 Feb 2014 at 10:23 amRay

    Jas, what you are saying is heresy. Repent in Jesus’ name.

  27. on 01 Feb 2014 at 10:26 amRay

    Jesus came to redeem. All men everywhere were in need of it, even those who did not receive commandments against it, for all have sinned.

  28. on 01 Feb 2014 at 10:51 amJas

    The only redemption the heathen gentiles needed was from the sin of Adam. The exiles of Israel and Judah were the gentiles being adressed as needing redemption and is the focus of the whole NT. Yet God will gather others along with the scattered but that was true in OT times.
    Again “for before the law was given, sin was in the world, but there is no accounting for sin when there is no law.”
    Therefore there is no need for redemption for the heathen gentiles who never received any Commandments from God

  29. on 01 Feb 2014 at 5:13 pmRay

    Jas, If some commandment of God is given to you and not me, does that mean I have never sinned in my entire life, if I have failed to do what you were told to do?

    If I did not do what you were told to do, why would it be placed on my account? It wouldn’t.

    If we were brothers for example, living in the same house, and having the same parents, and Mom says to you that you are to go to the store to buy a loaf of bread, and she gives you the money for it, and I do not go to the store for a loaf of bread (regardless of what you decide to do) does that mean I am righteous and have never sinned at any time whatsoever, and that I therefore have no need of redemption?

    Maybe Mom told me to cut the grass yesterday, and I forgot.

    There were natural laws in effect that God held people responsible for whether or not they were written down on paper or stone, whether or not somebody read something written or not.

    Do you think someone could kill their brother without cause and God would not consider it a sin simply because they were not someone who laid eyes on a table of stone that said, “Thou shalt not kill.”?


  30. on 01 Feb 2014 at 5:17 pmRay

    Jas, Do you believe Cain didn’t need redemption? Do you believe he didn’t sin against God when he slew his brother?

  31. on 01 Feb 2014 at 5:46 pmJas

    The whole point of Paul’s was before the law there was no accounting for sin. Yes acts that were revealed sinful by the law were in the world before the law. But without the accounting there is no need for redemption. Paul even states he would not know what was considered sin if it wasn’t revealed in the law..Again I emphasize the heathen gentiles were not in need of redemption for there own sin.
    Adam’s sin removed the possibility for a spiritual life after human death ,Jesus’ perfection reinstated that possibility . This is why remaing in death reigned till Jesus redeemed every man,woman and child allowing for mankind to be raised and judged by their own acts for a shot at eternal life.
    All the rest of the bible relates to the promises made that led to Jesus being born and living perfectly in the Commandments.
    Actually you would be blameless not righteous.He would be righteous if he obeyed and a sinner if he transgressed .

  32. on 01 Feb 2014 at 6:02 pmJas

    We are not told what commands were given Adam and his sons after he was removed from Eden except the Law of Sacrifice for the covering of Adam’s sin. My guess there was other Commandments personally given to them. .
    Cain will be able plead his case at judgement as we all can.

  33. on 01 Feb 2014 at 7:43 pmRay

    The idea that heathen Gentiles were not in need of redemption for their personal sins is contrary to the gospel.

    Jas, Do you know Jesus as your personal savior?

  34. on 01 Feb 2014 at 7:52 pmJas

    It was Paul’s idea not mine.
    Ask Paul that question.

  35. on 01 Feb 2014 at 8:16 pmRay

    Jas, Do you consider Cain to have been blameless in the sight of God?

  36. on 01 Feb 2014 at 8:20 pmJas

    I have no idea what commandments he received so it is not for me to consider. I am sure it will be sorted out at the Great White Throne Judgement.

  37. on 01 Feb 2014 at 8:25 pmRay

    Jas, what do you think the shed blood of his brother was crying out about?

  38. on 01 Feb 2014 at 8:28 pmRay

    Jas, Have you ever heard the expression, “For crying out loud!”?

  39. on 01 Feb 2014 at 8:37 pmJas

    It was metaphoric ,blood can not cry out.
    Yes have heard it and used it.Do you think this was the source of it?

  40. on 02 Feb 2014 at 7:22 amRay

    Jas, Once again I have no idea what you are talking about. What is it you say you have heard and used, and what is it you are asking was the source of what?

    You seem to be a barbarian to me and me to you.

  41. on 02 Feb 2014 at 7:24 amRay

    Jas, I know Jesus was Paul’s personal Lord and Savior, and that he knew him as such.

    Do you know Jesus that way?

  42. on 02 Feb 2014 at 9:33 amJas

    It would be impossible for me to say but I am sure we follow the same Jesus because we are likeminded on what is sin and who can sin. I was wondering when you were going start using the barbarian excuse again .
    My Hope and Prayer is to have Jesus as my King and as far as Savior he has already reinstated my chance at eternal life as he has done for ALL humanity who lost that chance with Adam’s sin. So he is EVERYONES personal savior.

  43. on 02 Feb 2014 at 11:53 amRay

    Jas, I’m wondering why you didn’t answer my rather clear questions in post #39, and also what you are considering that I seek to be excused of, when I said that you seem to be a barbarian to me and me to you.

  44. on 02 Feb 2014 at 12:02 pmRay

    Jas, I think I understand now, that you have heard of the expression and also have used “For crying out loud!”

    I consider that it may very well have come about because of Gen 4:10.

    Do we really think that we hear as God hears? The cry of
    Abel’s blood may have been more real to God than the sound of a falling tree in a forest is to us when someone is there to hear it.

    I hope you don’t believe that those who have not received the word of God, are not in need of redemption from sin, for all men everywhere have both committed it and have been in bondage to it, which is why Jesus came from heaven, to become God’s offering for it.

    I consider such a thing to be heresy.

  45. on 02 Feb 2014 at 12:15 pmJas

    You asked
    “Jas, Have you ever heard the expression, “For crying out loud!”?”

    I responded
    “Yes have heard it and used it.Do you think this was the source of it?”

    Just before that question you asked
    “Jas, what do you think the shed blood of his brother was crying out about?

    I responded
    “It was metaphoric ,blood can not cry out.”

    I never said you were excused of anything but said you are trying to use the barbarian example as an excuse for not understanding the conversation. Most people around here feel it is a waste of time to even respond to you but I feel otherwise so please dont spoil that with immature responses.

  46. on 02 Feb 2014 at 1:16 pmtimothy

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  47. on 02 Feb 2014 at 1:29 pmJas

    Even this book review of Matt’s proves the true church existed since its beginning and the Holy Roman Empire and Islam which are both perversions of true christianity tried to seek them out but the earth helped them by providing governments and rulers that protected them for 1260 years in this wilderness after the edicts of the 4th century caused them to flee.

  48. on 02 Feb 2014 at 9:01 pmRay

    Jas, sometimes I get confused is all. I wasn’t being deceitful.

  49. on 02 Feb 2014 at 9:09 pmRay

    One denomination isn’t the best goal. One Body in Christ, yes.

    I did an internet search today on “grains of sand”, and saw pictures of sand grains which were magnified 25 times. Amazing. (even if these grains were hand picked)

    Now I wonder about the stars.

  50. on 02 Feb 2014 at 9:11 pmRay

    Correction: 250 instead of 25.

  51. on 02 Feb 2014 at 9:29 pmJas

    I really admire the love you have for Jesus but you can not allow for it to skew the truth. At this site is an amazing assortment of great minds who have spent many years in the pursuit of the truth . Please take the time to listen to them and research yourself what they say. Discussion should help clear up confusion unless confusion is allowed to control the dialogue .

  52. on 02 Feb 2014 at 11:24 pmRay

    Jas, I believe you need more time in the gospel. I suggest studying Romans further.

    Just because someone never even heard of a single law of God and never personally received a single command from him, does not mean he is not in need of redemption of his own personal sins, for all men have sinned and have been in bondage to it.

  53. on 02 Feb 2014 at 11:29 pmRay

    Correction: I should have said redemption from his own personal sins rather than “of”, for sins are never redeemed by God, but he does redeem people from their sins which they have been in bondage to.

    It can baffle one’s mind how mankind at times can not notice they have sinned against God, or are not knowledgeable of them. For that reason, and more, the law was given.

  54. on 02 Feb 2014 at 11:43 pmJas

    Romans is one of my favorite books. I have read it in Latin and Greek studying the meaning of every word in difficult passages.This verse I quoted is very clear “5:13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world, but there is no accounting for sin when there is no law” Yes sinful acts were in the world but without the ability to identify sin a person can not be held accountable. I believe it even goes futher when relating to Israel, I believe an agreement to obey the law has to be entered for the law to even apply to you.
    Eventhough at final Judgment we will be shown what sin is and will have to ask forgiveness for it and be forgiven or be accounted blameless to receive eternal life.

  55. on 03 Feb 2014 at 5:02 amRay

    There is no one who will not be held accountable by God, which is why God commanded all men everywhere to repent, even those who knew not God. (Acts 17:30, Luke 24:47)

    Where does it say in scripture that men must first agree to obey the law before they can be held accountable by God? Read Job 33.

    Deliverance from sin comes through faith, not through ignorance. (Romans 4:4-8) According to Romans, it’s the man who believes God, whose iniquities are forgiven, whose sins are covered, and to whom the Lord will not impute sin, and that faith comes through hearing the word of God.

    I wonder how many live in ignorance and will not be prepared for the day of judgment when it comes, because of it.

  56. on 03 Feb 2014 at 8:56 amJas

    Entering a covenant is an agreement. The whole bible is about covenants ,
    I am just quoting a very clear verse, you can accept it or ignore it.

  57. on 03 Feb 2014 at 7:37 pmRay

    No Jas, you are not just quoting it. You are promoting it above all other verses as if it’s the gospel, which it is not.

    Everything in Romans has to fit together with not one part of it in contradiction of any other.

    It’s important to understand that everyone born into this world has sinned except Jesus who became the ransom for sin that anyone who believes in him might be saved.

    I suppose an exception to this might be an unborn child or one that was born stillborn. I say this because they may not have had a chance to sin, not yet having had a chance to live in this world.

    But let’s get real, honest, and plain about the fact that every man has sinned and is in need of salvation from his (personal) sins, whether or not he was raised under the law of Moses, or lived in a remote part of the world where the gospel or even the law of Moses had not been heard of.

    Those who have heard of the law of God (should) have a greater understanding of what sin is, and therefore have a greater responsibility concerning sin.

    Ignorance is no excuse with God, yet he who knows little about what he has done wrong will receive less severe chastisement, rebuke, or correction because of his ignorance.

    Those who are as completely ignorant as ignorance can be, still need to be redeemed from personal sins, with possible exemptions to this being the unborn or stillborn or something like that, but let’s talk mainstream, common life and living here.

  58. on 03 Feb 2014 at 8:06 pmJas

    The verse I quoted does not say people did not sin it says that before the Law was given sin was not accounted therefore there would be no need for redemption. The verse that confuses you just states All men have sinned whether accounted or not accounted.
    In the OT there is no sacrifice for sin for children which also means children have no sin accounted to them period. This is because sin is the transgression of The Law of God which children were not capable of understanding. I would say this also applies to retarded or mentally ill people.
    You refered to Job as not receiving commandments from God yet Job performed the law of sacrifice probably given to him when he entered a Covenant relationship with God.
    Yes you knowing what the law says convicts you but you are probably blameless when you break the Commandments because you have not entered an agreement to obey them as ALL Israel had to do when they entered adulthood or what foreigners had to do to become a citizen of Israel.
    This in no way discounts the fact that All will receive salvation from certain eternal death without the chance of eternal life. A curse put upon mankind by Adam which Jesus redeemed ALL mankind from. Your problem is you do not understand that not having sin accounted is not sinless, its blameless.

  59. on 03 Feb 2014 at 11:15 pmTimoteo

    ref to # 53…..

    Romans 4: kjv
    16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,


    Romans 10: kjv
    4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

    I was thinking that the “final judgement” will be for those at the 2nd resurrection of the unjust.

    “Eventhough at final Judgment we will be shown what sin is and will have to ask forgiveness for it and be forgiven or be accounted blameless to receive eternal life.”

    Being Kingdom Ready requires staying in Christ and being forgiven as one procededs to the finish line, where Jesus Christ shall return and resurrect his called and chosen.

    To maintain ones fellowship, being IN Christ IN GOD…..

    1 John 2: kjv
    1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

    3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

    5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

    12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name’s sake.

    24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

    25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

    28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

    29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

  60. on 04 Feb 2014 at 3:26 amRay

    Jas, nowhere in the Bible does it say that there are people who don’t need redemption.

  61. on 04 Feb 2014 at 4:29 amRay

    Jas, Where are these people (that you speak of ) who have sinned and don’t need redemption? What are their names? Where do they live? What town are they from? What tribe?

  62. on 04 Feb 2014 at 9:40 amJas

    Again the verse I am quoting are Paul’s words but it would be foolish to think he could answer such questions.

  63. on 04 Feb 2014 at 9:50 amRay

    Jas, Even a babe in Christ could answer such things. There are perhaps so many sins that God may overlook which he will not place on my account, yet I still need my redeemer, and his redemption for all the sins which I have done, and for my future.

  64. on 04 Feb 2014 at 10:04 amJas

    I ask you please not to give immature responses especially those designed to condemn the other and exalt you as the only christian. I am just quoting a verse from Paul , I do not have his sources for HIS CONCLUSION. You can accept Paul’s conclusion or ignore it just don’t blame me for quoting something God wanted people to know.

  65. on 04 Feb 2014 at 6:51 pmRay

    Jas, my response to you is mature enough and also gives glory to God who gave his children the simple understanding that ALL people everywhere are in need of salvation, and it doesn’t come without redemption by Jesus Christ, for without the shedding of his blood there would be no redemption for us as the scripture plainly teaches.

    The rest of what you are saying I can not hear, for it is quite barbaric to my ears.

  66. on 04 Feb 2014 at 7:22 pmJas

    So concludes our conversation.

  67. on 05 Feb 2014 at 11:09 amJas

    Ok back to history


  68. on 05 Feb 2014 at 6:21 pmRay

    The conclusion of the whole matter is this:

    Ecc 12:13,14
    …Fear God, and keep his commandments; for this is the whole duty of man.
    For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good or evil.

    Which is why everyone who will be saved by Jesus needs his atonement for their personal sins, and why we need the gospel, the whole armor of God.

    God gave us that armor for a reason.

  69. on 05 Feb 2014 at 6:37 pmJas

    You already concluded our conversation so please make your comments relevant to the topic.

  70. on 06 Feb 2014 at 3:05 pmMatt Elton

    Ray, to answer your original question, most Nestorian Christians were not Jews. Nestorius was Archbishop of Constantinople, but when he was condemned as a heretic he and his followers moved east. The seat of power in the Nestorian church would eventually rest in Persia, present day Iran. Most Nestorian Christians were Persian by ethnicity, though some were Arab, Turk, or Egyptian. The church also extended into India and China, winning converts from those nationalities.

    As far as I know, Nestorian Christians did not observe the ceremonial aspects of the Jewish law such as feasts, holidays, etc. I do not know whether or not they observed the Sabbath.

    Grace and peace,

    Matthew Elton

  71. on 06 Feb 2014 at 3:50 pmJas

    If you research this branch of christianity that extended into China You could answer whether or not. Fact is if you provided the words on the great stone monument it would answer it for you.
    How do you understand the great historian Socrates when he states the in his day the whole world observed the Sabbath except for those in Rome’s control who observed the day of the Sun

  72. on 06 Feb 2014 at 8:11 pmRay

    Jas, I concluded my conversation in post #66. If you have any further comments please make them relative to my conclusion.

  73. on 06 Feb 2014 at 9:57 pmJas

    I was aware of Russian holocaust but not the others. Maybe this is when the unitarian sabbath keeping church was persecuted into extinction .


  74. on 07 Feb 2014 at 11:12 amJas

    Many christians claim Sunday worship was early in christianity by quoting the use of Lord’s day and 8th day from early commentators but as we see below from Eusebius the Lord’s day was just Saturday morning at first light making it a separate day from the Sabbath to them making it the 8th day in a 7 day week. This fact is very important in recognizing the real church in the written histories

    Commentary on the Psalms 92 by Eusebius of Caesarea
    Wherefore as they rejected it the Word, by the New Covenant, Translated and transferred the feast of the sabbath to the morning light, and gave us the symbol of true rest, viz. The Saving Lord’s Day, the first of the light, in which the Saviour of the world, after all his labours among men, obtained the victory over death, and passed the portals of heaven, having achieved a work superior to the six-days’ creation on this day, which is the first of light and of the true Sun, we assemble, after an interval of six days, and celebrate holy and spiritual sabbaths, even all nations redeemed by him throughout the world, And do those things according to the spiritual law, which were decreed for the priests to do on the sabbath; for we make spiritual offerings and sacrifices, which are called sacrifices of praise and rejoicing; we make incense of a good odour to ascend, as it is said, ‘Let my prayer come up before thee as incense.’ Yea, we also present the shewbread, reviving the remembrance of our salvation, the blood of sprinkling, which is of the Lamb of God, who taketh away the sins of the world, and which purifies our souls. . . . Moreover we are diligent to do zealously, on that day, the things enjoined in this Psalm; by word and work making confession to the Lord, and singing in the name of the Most High. In the morning, also, with the first rising of our light, we proclaim the mercy of God toward us; also his truth by night, exhibiting a sober and chaste demeanour; And all things whatsoever that it was duty to do on the sabbath [Jewish seventh day,] these we have transferred to the Lord’s day, as more appriately belonging to it, because it has a precedence and is first in rank and more honourable than the Jewish sabbath. For on that day, in making the world, God said, Let there be light, and there was light; and on the same day, the Sun of righteousness arose upon our souls. Wherefore it is delivered to us [paradodotai, it is handed down by tradition,] that we should meet together on this day ; and it is ordered that we should do those things announced in this Psalm.

  75. on 11 Feb 2014 at 1:36 pmJas

    “Being Kingdom Ready requires staying in Christ and being forgiven as one procededs to the finish line, where Jesus Christ shall return and resurrect his called and chosen.”

    Yet sinning after one has been enlightened by the Spirit requires crucifying Jesus again which we know will not happen. The true church would identifiable by the fact they do not commit even the smallest sin after they receive the pouring on of the Spirit. So either nobody will be saved or your are confusing Grace with the Promise God made with those who obey his Commandments.
    For those who read this that dont know me rest assure I am not boasting I am part of true church but know I am searching for the true church if they still even exist . I have traced many groups who possess the signs which were persecuted and driven futher into the wilderness or were cruelly murdered and bibles and writings ordered to be destroyed . I may never find them but my search has atleast brought my admiration and thanks to how they Glorified God and Jesus through their unselfish love.

  76. on 20 Feb 2014 at 12:38 pmJas

    The more I study the history of the church the more it aligns with the rise of the beast who suffered a deadly wound by Jesus redeeming ALL mankind curse Adam’s sin put upon us. The curse of remaing in death for eternity . This beast rose again in early 4th century when it achieved power through emperors which caused the true church to flee into the wilderness scattering all over to areas which provided seclusion and protection from the beast for 1260 years. After this era a new invention of the dragon rose which was the protestants of the late 16th century who were born out the beast but brought to the people an option by exposing one or more lies of the romish church while keeping at least one lie. This is the era of the false prophet who seems to be separate from the beast but in some way still uphold atleast one of the lies of the beast. As we can see today this is a combination of 30000 + ways the truth can be mixed with a lie plus provided a more effective way to persecute the church by sending out wolf’s in sheeps clothing to seek out and deceive the elect.
    The times or fulfillment of the gentiles ends when the true church can not continue to produce or live by God’s standards of equal measurement which fiat money nolonger represents. This means if the true church exist today they exist through an equal barter system which can not last much longer.


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